COMBINATION OF [1]  THE SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY AND [2]  DOCUMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF JOHN BEING ANTI-TRINITARIAN-IN MULTIPLE PARTS: 


[1]       SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY [VOL. 850A]

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.   Romans 15:4,  [authorized King James Bible; AV]

Yes, many examples have been given in the Bible to back up this reality, and one is given at 1 Corinthians 10:11 – 12, [AV] “Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.  12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”  Almighty God (YHWH) will provide this comfort per Psalms 119:50, [AV] “This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.”  Yes, much of what is provided for our guidance in the Bible is given per 1 Corinthians 9:10, [AV] “Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.” 

TO LEARN MORE ABOUT RELIGION AND THE BIBLE, GO TO, 

1) http://iris89.conforums.com/ 

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/ 

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/ 

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/ 

5) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/ 

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/ 

7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/ 

To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/thread/1417398076/last-1417398076/Digital+Book+On+18+Part+Follow+Christ+Bible+Study 

Your Friend in Christ Iris89 

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to WWW.JW.ORG!

[2]   Documentary on the Book of John Being Anti-Trinitarian-In Multiple Parts:

JOHN 1:1-2 - LEARN THE FACTS:

Many emotionally diehard Trinitarians point to how John 1:1 is erroneously worded in many Bibles as, "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God." (American Standard Version; ASV), and neglect to look at John 1:2 in those same Bibles which says, "The same was in the beginning with God." (ASV); Clearly showing two distinct individuals. Moreover the overlook John 1:14 in those same Bibles which says, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth." (ASV) which clearly shows his as the only begotten of his Father, Almighty God (YHWH) in harmony with 1 John 4:9, "Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him." (ASV) once more clearly showing them as two distinct individuals, one superior to the other and sending the subordinate, his Son, to be among mankind.

The next problem for Trinitarians is the salient fact that no matter how you analyze or translate John 1:1 you only get two individuals or as they falsely claim manifestations of one individual, which makes NO Trinity or group of three, neither of individuals and/or manifestations; my, my, so much for John 1:1 proving a trinity. It does not do this even with the biased translations of Trinitarians; moreover, there are more accurate ways of translating John 1:1 such as the way the New English Bible whose translators had access to older manuscripts that did the translators of the King James Bible, the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, and the American Standard Bible. In the New English Bible, John 1:1 reads, "When all things began, the Word already was. The word dwelt with God, and what God was, the Word was." (The New English Bible; NEB). In fact, the NEB renders John 1:2, "The Word, then, was with God at the beginning, and through him all things came to be;" (NEB), and the fact that his Father (YHWH) after creating him used Jesus (Yeshua) as his master worker is revealed at Proverbs 8:22-30 about Jesus (Yeshua) being brought forth and being his Father's (YHWH's) master workman, "Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills was I brought forth; 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, Nor the beginning of the dust of the world. 27 When he established the heavens, I was there: When he set a circle upon the face of the deep, 28 When he made firm the skies above, When the fountains of the deep became strong, 29 When he gave to the sea its bounds, That the waters should not transgress his commandments, When he marked out the foundations of the earth; 30 Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him." (ASV); And Jesus' (Yeshua's)existence before the earth was is affirmed at John 8:58, "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am." (ASV); Thus as Colossians 1:17 says, ""and he is before all things, and in him all things consist." (ASV); And at Revelation 3:14, "And to the angel of the church is Laodicea write: 'These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:" (ASV), Jesus (Yeshua) is once more shown as the first of creation. Clearly, then, he, Jesus (Yeshua) is neither the same individual and/or manifestation of the same individual; Nor co-eternal, nor co-equal with his Father (YHWH).

All this in strict compliance with the Jewish Law of Agencies which is basically as follows, "Jesus (Yeshua) was God's (YHWH's) appointed agent in accordance with the 'Biblical law of agency' described as, "Scripture mentions something being done by Person A, whilst another mentions it being done by Person B. This is best understood when we grasp the Schaliach Principle, or the Jewish Law of Agency, which is expressed in the dictum, "A person's agent is regarded as the person himself." Therefore any act committed by a duly appointed agent is regarded as having been committed by the principle." (The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion, R.J.Z. Werblowski and Geoffrey Wigoder). And 1 Timothy 2:5 says, "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, [himself] man, Christ Jesus," (ASV). This is why Jesus (Yeshua) could say, John 16:23, "And in that day ye shall ask me no question. Verily, verily, I say unto you, if ye shall ask anything of the Father, he will give it you in my name."(ASV).


This fact is further affirmed at Ephesians 1:20-23 which shows that his Father (YHWH) raised him from the dead and put him at his right hand to administer all for him, "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come; 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all." (ASV); This fact, that his Father (YHWH) placed him over all things except himself, a superior one, is highlighted at 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, "But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of them that are asleep. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming. 24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. 28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all." (ASV). This will bring the fulfillment foretold at Isaiah 45:23, "By myself have I sworn, the word is gone forth from my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." (ASV). This scripture shows that God (YHWH) will bring the earth back to perfection, i.e., a place where everyone will love their creator, Almighty God (YHWH), and his chief agent or mediator of life, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ, and their neighbor, and he, God (YHWH) will once more be using his Son, the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua) as his master worker to accomplish this as shown by 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, previously quoted.

Now when we look at other constructs or translations of John 1:1 the fact that John 1:1 can NOT even support a Duality let alone a Trinity becomes even more readily apparent.
Let's look at the 10 possible constructs of John 1:1 that do NOT violate any rule of Koine Greek grammar with the exception of the fact is that THEOS (=God) is a count noun, not a mass noun or an adjective. As a count noun it MUST BE countable, i.e. either definite or indefinite (i.e. either "a god" or "the God") for two of the constructs:

<1> "and a god was the Logos." [example of Bible using, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Jurgen Becker Harwood, 1979]

<2> "the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God" [example of Bible using, Schonfield, 1976]

<3> "The Word dwelt with God, and what God was, the word was." [example of Bible using, The New English Bible, NEB, 1961-present standard Bible agreed to by most denominations in the United Kingdom]

<4> "And the word was a god" [example of Bible using, The New Testament in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Achbishop Newcome's New Translation: With a Corrected Text.]

<5> "and the Word was divine" [example of Bible using, The Bible: An American Translation, by J.M.P. Smith and E.J. Goodspeed. }

<6> "and the Word was God" [example of Bible using, American Standard Version, ASV] [note, this construct violates the count noun rule of Koine Greek and is the common biased rendering of this scripture]

<7> "He was the same as God" example of Bible using, Today's English Version.]

<8> "the Logos was divine" [example of Bible using, The New Testament: A New Translation, by James Moffat]

<9> "r war bei Gott und in allem Gott gleich"[He was with God and in all like God] [example of Bible using, Haenchen (tr. By R. Funk), 1982]

<10> "Gott (von Art) war der Logos" [God (of Kind/kind) was the Logos/logos] [example of Bible using, Die Bibel in heutigem Deutsch, 1980]

As we can see, here are ten different constructs possible without violating any rule of Koine Greek grammar except the count Noun rule. So, now, let's look at what follows in context in general format at John 1:2:

"The Word, then, was with God at the beginning," (The New English Bible, NEB)

"The same was in the beginning with God." (American Standard Version, ASB)

"The same was in the beginning with God." (Authorized King James Bible; AV)

"He was in the beginning with God." (Revised Standard Version; RSV)

"He was in the beginning with God." (The Confraternity Edition of the New Testament - Catholic)

As is easily seen, John 1:2 is substantially the same in all translations. However, in context it does not harmonize with some of the constructs used which do not violate any rule of Koine Greek grammar with the exception of the count Noun rule to be explained later.

However clearly some of the ten (10) or more basic constructs agree in context with John 1:2 and some do NOT. Let's look at the point where some do not agree or harmonize with the context of John 1:2:

John 1:2 plainly says that the Word, or Logos, who is Jesus (Yeshua) was with God in the beginning which would be impossible if Jesus (Yeshua) was Almighty God (YHWH) himself. This rules out constructs 6, 7, and 10, represented below, as impossible as they do NOT harmonize with context.

<6> "and the Word was God" [example of Bible using, American Standard Version, ASV] [note, this construct violates the count noun rule of Koine Greek]

<7> "He was the same as God" example of Bible using, Today's English Version.]

<10> "Gott (von Art) war der Logos" [God (of Kind/kind) was the Logos/logos] [example of Bible using, Die Bibel in heutigem Deutsch, 1980]

And two of these constructs do violate the count Noun rule of Koine Greek; to wit, constructs 6 and 7.

Now exactly what is the count Noun rule of Koine Greek? It is as follows:

The fact is that THEOS (=God) is a count noun, not a mass noun or an adjective. As a count noun it MUST BE countable, i.e. either definite or indefinite (i.e. either "a god" or "the God"). The trinitarian argument hinges on stripping THEOS of its count-ability, so that it is purely qualitative. However, if a noun is PURELY qualitative, it is not a count noun. An adjective or a mass noun may fit their requirement for emphasizing qualitativness only, but a count noun MUST BE countable, for that is what *count* means when describing a count noun. If he accepts this rather elementary rule of English grammar, you can demonstrate that, as a count noun, THEOS may be translated either "the Word was God" (="the Word was The God", which is Sabellianism), or "the Word was a god". Since orthodox trinitarians reject "the Word was The God" (=Sabellianism), they are left with "the Word was a god" -- that is, if they remain true to English syntax (and English syntax is what ENGLISH translations are supposed to follow!). If one argues the point, let them provide an example of a non-countable *count noun* that is not used in a contrary-to-fact situation, such as a metaphor. I have yet to find anyone, trinitarian or otherwise, who is able to meet this challenge. Rolf Furuli, one of the two best living Koine Greek scholars, discusses this in his book, THE ROLE OF THEOLOGY AND BIAS IN BIBLE TRANSLATION, as does Greg Stafford, in his, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES DEFENDED: AN ANSWER TO SCHOLARS AND CRITICS. There are also some very good posts by Wes Williams on greektheology that discuss this issue.

"To preserve in English the different nuance of theos [god] with and without the article, some (Moffat) would translate 'The Word was divine.'"

Notice a literal translation of John 1:1,2:

"In the beginning was the world and the word was toward the god and god was the word. This (one) was in beginning toward the god."

In these two verses we see six nouns, three referring to the Greek word logos (word, which most recognize to be Jesus - Yeshua) and three referring to the Greek word theos (god). We notice each reference to logos (word) is preceded by the definite article "the", while two of the three times the word theos (god) occurs, it too is preceded by the definite article "the". For some reason, John does not provide the definite article with theos when it is associated with "The Word". We thus see two definite individuals mentioned in this verse. "The Word", Jesus (Yeshua) Christ, and "The God", who is Almighty God Jehovah (YHWH). John does not say "The Word" is "The God". (In fact, most Trinitarian scholars would argue that if John had said the word was "ho theos" (The God), it would amount to sabellianism (the belief that Jesus is both the Father and the Son). As such, it is commonly agreed upon that John was not identifying Jesus (Yeshua) as God (YHWH) but rather, was describing him as deity.) But if John did not say "The Word" is "The God", then what did he mean by saying, "the word was god"?

In Greek, it is possible for a noun to act as an adjective when it is not accompanied by the definite article. Consider a Biblical example of this in John 6:70. "Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" (NIV)

Here the noun (devil) is not proceeded by the definite article (the). To reflect this most Bibles place the indefinite article (a) in front of it. Thus, Jesus was not identifying Judas as "THE Devil", he was saying Judas had the qualities of the devil. He was acting like the devil so he was A devil though not THE devil. This example helps us to see how the lack of the definite article can cause a noun to act as a predication rather than an identification.

Regarding this point, noted Bible scholar William Barclay writes:

"When in Greek two nouns are joined by the verb to be and when both have the definite article, then the one is fully identified with the other; but when one of them is without the article, it become more an adjective than a noun, and describes rather the class of the sphere to which the other belongs...

"John has no definte article before theos, God. The Logos, therefore, is not identified as God or with God; the word theos has become adjectival and describes the sphere to which the logos belongs...

"This passage then [John 1:1] does not identify the Logos and God; it does not say that Jesus (Yeshua) was God (YHWH), nor does it call him God; but it does say that in his nature and being he belongs to the same class as God." Or as the New English Bible states, "and what God was, the Word was."

Mr. Barclay's observations are duly noted in the example we considered with Judas Iscariot being "a devil".

Now let's consider what the Greek Scholar Jason BeDuhn from the Northern Arizona University has to say: "The Greek phrase is 'theos en ho logos', which translated word for word is "a god was the word." Greek has only a definite article, like our the, it does not have an indefinite article, like our a or an. If a noun is definite, it has the definite article 'ho'. If a noun is indefinite, no article is used. In the phrase from John 1:1, 'ho logos' is "the word." If it was written simply logos, without the definite article 'ho', we would have to translate it as "a word". So we are not really "inserting" an indefinite article when we translate Greek nouns without the definite article into English, we are simply obeying rules of English grammar that tell us that we cannot say "Snoopy is dog," but must say "Snoopy is a dog."

Now in English we simply say "God"; we do not say "The God." But in Greek, when you mean to refer to the one supreme God, instead of one of the many other beings that were called "gods," you would have to say "The God": 'ho theos'. Even a monotheistic Christian, who believes there is only one God and no others, would be forced to say in Greek "The God," as John and Paul and the other writers of the New Testament normally do. If you leave off the article in a phrase like John 1:1, then you are saying "a god." (There are some exceptions to this rule: Greek has what are called noun cases, which means the nouns change form depending on how they are used in a sentence. So, if you want to say "of God," which is 'theou', you don't need the article. But in the nominative case, which is the one in John 1:1, you have to have the article.) So what does John mean by saying "the word was a god"? He is classifying Jesus in a specific category of beings. There are plants and animals and humans and gods, and so on. By calling the Word "a god," John wants to tell his readers that the Word (which becomes Jesus when it takes flesh) belongs to the divine class of things. Notice the word order: "a god was the word." We can't say it like this in English, but you can in Greek. The subject can be after the verb and the object before the verb, the opposite of how we do it in English (subject-verb-object). Research has shown that when ancient Greek writers put a object-noun first in a sentence like John 1:1 (a be-verb sentence: x is y), without the definite article, they are telling us that the subject belongs to the class represented by the object-noun: :"The car is a Volkswagen." In English we would accomplish the same thing by using what we call predicate adjectives. "John is a smart person" = "John is smart." So we would tend to say "The word was divine," rather than "The word was a god." That is how I would translate this phrase. "The word was a god" is more literal, and an improvement over "The word was God," but it raises more problems, since to a modern reader it implies polytheism. No one in John's day would have understood the phrase to mean "The word was God" - the language does not convey that sense, and conceptually it is difficult to grasp such an idea, especially since that author has just said that the word was with God. Someone is not with himself, he is with some other. John clearly differentiates between God from the Word. The latter becomes flesh and is seen; the former cannot be seen. What is the Word? John says it was the agent through whom God made the world. He starts his gospel "In the beginning..." to remind us of Genesis 1. How does God create in Genesis? He speaks words that make things come into existence. So the Word is God's creative power and plan and activity. It is not God himself, but it is not really totally separate from God either. It occupies a kind of ambiguous status. That is why a monotheist like John can get away with calling it "a god" or "divine" without becoming a polytheist. This divine thing does not act on its own, however, does take on a kind of distinct identity, and in becoming flesh brings God's will and plan right down face to face with humans.

All this is in keeping with what John the Baptist is recorded by the Apostle John at John 1:15, "John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is before me: for hi was before me." (ASV).

A MORE POWERFUL BAPTISM BY MEANS OF JESUS (YESHUA):

John the Baptist was grilled by some priests, Levites, and Pharisees at John 1:20-34, "'I am not the Messiah.' 'What then? Are you Elijah?' 'No', he replied. 'Are you the prophet we await?' He answered 'No.' 'Then who are you?' they asked. 'We must give an answer to those who sent us. What account do you give of yourself?' He answered in the words of the prophet Isaiah: 'I am a voice cryinhg aloud in the wilderness, 'Make the Lord's highway straight.' Some Pharisees who were in deputation asked him, 'If you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the prophet, why then are you baptizing?' 'I baptize in water,' John replied, 'but among you though you do not know him, stands the one who is to come after me. I am not good enough to unfasten his shoes.' This took place at Bethany beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. The next day he saw Jesus coming towards him. 'Look," he said 'there is the Lamb of God; it is he who takes away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I spoke when I said, 'After me a man is coming who takes rank before me'; for before I was born, he already was. I myself did not know who he was; but the very reason why I came, baptizing in water, was that he might be revealed to Israel.' John testified further: 'I saw the Spirit coming down from heaven like a dove and resting upon him. I did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize in water had told me, 'When you see the Spirit coming down upon someone and resting upon him you will know that this is he who is to baptize in Holy Spirit.' I saw it myself, and I have borne witness. This is God's Chosen One." (NEB). If he had been a part of a Trinity consisting of Father (YHWH), Son (Yeshua), and the Holy Spirit or Spirit the above could NOT have occurred since one individual could NOT come down on himself, and the above record would be utter linguistic foolishness; however, it is NOT as this God (YHWH) dishonoring doctrine is the fable or myth of mankind per the warning at 2 Timothy 4:3-4, "For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts; 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables." (ASV); why so? It is due to the activities of Satan the Devil as shown at Corinthians 4:4, ""In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (AV); due to their not seeking sound doctrine per Titus 2:1, "But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

Interestingly right after this in John the first chapter, the Apostle John wrote with respect Simon Peter the following, at John 1:42, "And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone." (AV).

GOD LOVES HIS SON, JESUS (YESHUA) AND SENT HIM TO EARTH WITH AUTHORITY:

John the Baptist testified to the fact that Jesus (Yeshua) did NOT come of his own volition, but had been sent by his Father (YHWH) with full authority as shown at 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, previously quoted. At John 3:31 to 36, we see the absolute truth of this testified to, "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 What he hath seen and heard, of that be beareth witness; and no man receiveth his witness. 33 He that hath received his witness hath set his seal to this that God is true. 34 For his whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him." (ASV). This scripture reveals two important facts, First, that God (YHWH) loves his son; Second, Almighty God (YHWH) has sent his Son, Jesus (Yeshua) to earth to carry out an assignment and given him the concomitant authority to be able to do so as shown at 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, previously quoted.

And at John 4:24-26, "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.' The woman answered, "I know that Messiah' (that is Christ) 'is coming. When he comes he will tell us everything.' Jesus said, 'I am he, I who am speaking to you now." (NEB). Now note, at this time the Son of God (YHWH), Jesus (Yeshua) was on earth as a perfect fleshly man; whereas the scripture clearly shows, "God is spirit," thus invisible. But Jesus (Yeshua) was flesh and blood and clearly visible at this time; therefore, there is NO way that they could be one and the same individual unless God (YHWH) is a liar and the Bible clearly shows this is NOT the case at Titus 1:2, "In hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal." (ASV).

And at John 5:25-26, "In truth, in very truth I tell you, a time is coming, indeed it is already here, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and all who hear shall come to life. For as the Father has life-giving power in himself, so has the Son, by the Father's gift." (NEB) clearly once more showing all the power and authority Jesus (Yeshua) Christ has were given to him by a superior one, his Father, Almighty God (YHWH); And at John 5:36, "But I rely on a testimony higher than John's. There is enough to testify that the Father has sent me, in the works my Father gave me to do and to finish-the very works I have in hand." (NEB) once more clearly showing that his Father, a superior one, had given him works to do in full compliance with the principles of the Jewish Law of Agencies previously explained as his master worker as shown at Proverbs 8:22-30, previously quoted. And this is affirmed at John 5:37, "This testimony to me was given by the Father who sent me, although you never heard his voice, or saw his form." (NEB); however, unfortunately the Father's (HYWH's) word through his Son per John 5:38, "But his word has found no home in you for you do not believe the one whom he sent." (NEB). Likewise, Jesus (Yeshua) stated at John 5:43-44, "I have come accredited by my Father, and you have no welcome for me; if another comes self-accredited you will welcome him. How can you have faith so long as you receive honour from one another, and care nothing for the honour that comes from him who alone is God?" (NEB), once more testifying to two facts, First, Jesus (Yeshua) was both sent by and accredited by his Father (YHWH), and Second, he, Jesus (Yeshua) is a distinct individual separate and apart from his Father (YHWH) who had sent him and accredited him. Just as Jesus (Yeshua) said, John 5:45-47, "Do not imagine that I shall be your accuser at God's tribunal. Your accuser is Moses, the very Moses on whom you have set your hope. If you believed Moses you would believe what I tell you, for it was about me that he wrote. But if you do not believe what he wrote, how are you to believe what I say?" (NEB).

TRUE CHRISTIANS MUST DO THE WORKS OF GOD AS SHOWN BY HIS SON:

Many read Jesus' (Yeshua's) assignment to his true followers at Matthew 24:14, "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (New International Version; NIV). Now let's see what John 6:28-29, "They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (ASV); And Jesus (Yeshua) went on to show that his Father (YHWH) was the superior one at John 6:31-33, "Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, He gave them bread out of heaven to eat. 32 Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, It was not Moses that gave you the bread out of heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down out of heaven, and giveth life unto the world." (ASV); And at John 6:37, "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the man who comes to me I will never turn away. I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me." (NEB). Now how much explicit can Jesus (Yeshua) get with respect who sent him and whose will he is doing; thereby, clearly showing neither a Duality or a Trinity exist except as a fable of mankind who are being deceived by none other than Satan the Devil as shown at 2 Corinthians 4:4, previously quoted. Jesus (Yeshua) specifically said at John 6:40, "For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (ASV), as clearly noted, he was once more showing what the will of his Father (YHWH) is and not his own will; thereby, showing that his Father (YHWH) was the superior one and that he, Jesus (Yeshua), was an obedient Son. This same fact is testified to at John 6:45-47, "It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he that is from God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life." (ASV); And at John 6:57, "As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me." (ASV) once more, here we find Jesus (Yeshua) testifying with respect whom had sent him and showing he was subject to him.

THE WORLD HATES JESUS (YESHUA) AND THOSE ACCURATELY TEACHING HIM:

The fact that the world hates Jesus (Yeshua) was testified to by none other that Jesus (Yeshua) at John 7:7, "The world cannot hate you; but it hates me for exposing the wickedness of its ways." (NEB), with this being spoken to his fleshly brothers [actually half brothers as his father was NOT Joseph, but Almighty God (YHWH) himself] who had not yet become believers in him at John 7:5, "For even his brothers were not believers in him." (NEB). And at John 7:16-18, Jesus (Yeshua) said, "Jesus therefore answered them, and said, My teaching is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man willeth to do his will, he shall know of the teaching, whether is is of God, or whether I speak from myself. 18 He that speaketh from himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh the glory of him that sent him, the same is ture, and no unrighteousness is in him." (ASV); once more, here Jesus (Yeshua) is showing he was sent by a superior one and that it was the will and teachings of this superior one that he was making known, and that he was NOT doing his own will. We should all believe Jesus (Yeshua) that he was sent by Almighty God (YHWh), his father, to do his Father's (YHWH's) will and not his own since Jesus (Yeshua) is not a liar anymore than is his Father (YHWH).

The fact that he had NOT come of his own accord is testified to by Jesus (Yeshua) at John 7:28-29, "Jesus therefore cried in the temple, teaching and saying, Ye both know me, and know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 I know him; because I am from him, and he sent me." (ASV); Now how much clearer can it be that Jesus (Yeshua) was sent by a superior one, his Father, Almighty God (YHWH). But what did the Jews under control of the God of this System per 2 Corinthians 4:4, previously quoted, want to do? Let's look at John 7:30, "They sought therefore to take him: and no man laid his hand on him, because his hour was not yet come." (ASV). It is to be noted that at this time the Spirit had not yet been given as shown at John 7:39, "But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified." (ASV).

TO READ THE REMAINDER OF THIS VERY IMPORTANT DOCUMENT, Documentary on the Book of John Being Anti-Trinitarian-In Multiple Parts:, GO TO PART 2 AT VOL 852 AND PART 3 AT VOL 853. 

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE BIBLE AND RELIGION – BOTH TRUE AND FALSE – AT WWW.JW.ORG

COMBINATION OF [1]  THE SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY AND [2]  DOCUMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF JOHN BEING ANTI-TRINITARIAN-IN MULTIPLE PARTS, PART 3  [NOTE, PART 1 IS VOL 850A AND PART 2 IS VOL 851A ]


[1]       SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY [VOL. 852A]

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.  23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.   Romans 8:22 – 23,  [authorized King James Bible; AV]

We are carnal as revealed at 1 Corinthians 3:3, [AV] “For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?”  But, we should lead spiritual lives as shown by Galatians 5:25, [AV] “If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”  Yes, the Bible reveals at 1 Corinthians 3:16, [AV] “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”  Therefore Galatians 4:6, [AV] “And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”  So we ought to be living lives in accordance with his will.   

TO LEARN MORE ABOUT RELIGION AND THE BIBLE, GO TO, 

1) http://iris89.conforums.com/ 

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/ 

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/ 

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/ 

5) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/ 

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/ 

7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/ 

To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/thread/1417398076/last-1417398076/Digital+Book+On+18+Part+Follow+Christ+Bible+Study 

Your Friend in Christ Iris89 

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to WWW.JW.ORG!

[2]   PART 3 OF  Documentary on the Book of John Being Anti-Trinitarian-In Multiple Parts

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. <[And now--in return. glorify thou me--The "I Thee" and "Thou Me" are so placed in the original, each beside its fellow, as to show that A PERFECT RECIPROCITY OF SERVICES of the Son to the Father first, and then of the Father to the Son in return, is what our Lord means here to express. with the glory which I had with thee before the world was--when "in the beginning the Word was with God" (John 1:1), "the only-begotten Son in the bosom of the Father" (John 1:18). With this pre-existent glory, which He veiled on earth, He asks to be reinvested, the design of the veiling being accomplished--not, however, simply as before, but now in our nature. (a) As can clearly be seen, Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) had been in heaven with his Father, Almighty God (YHWH) before he came down to earth to prove himself faithful under temptation, and here he was asking his Father (YHWH) for what he had had before in heaven. This clearly shows two individuals, one a superior being prayed to and a subordinate asking the superior for what he had had before in heaven. (b) ]>

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. <[ From praying for Himself He now comes to pray for His disciples. I have manifested--I manifested. thy name--His whole character towards mankind. to the men thou gavest me out of the (a) Here the Son, Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) acknowledges that the men belonged to Almighty God (YHWH), but he gave them to his son, "thou gavest them me; " clearly showing two individuals, a superior who can give things to a Son, and a Son who can receive things from his father; not two individuals in one Godhead as proclaimed by the Cathars. (b) ]>

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. <[Here, the Son, is acknowledging the gifts from his Father, and stating that the gifts are of thee, the Father, "are of thee." Obviously an interaction between two individuals, one the superior, the Father, the giver, and the subordinate, the Son, the receiver of the gifts. (b) ]>

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. [This is also shown at Ephesians 4:12-16, as follows, "they . . . have known surely that I came out from (a) Here he, the Son, Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) , mentions that he has given to his followers, "the words which thou gavest me," and his followers, "and they have received them." Then he, the Son, continues, "and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me," showing that his followers would surely know that they were one is purpose, "12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." (AV) and Ephesians 3:9-14, "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (AV). And at, 1 Timothy 2:5, "These clearly show that Almighty God (YHWH) and Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) although not one in body, are one in purpose, and since the Father has given mankind to the Son for the present time, we should all recognize the Son as the only mediator between God and mankind, " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (1 Timothy 2:5 AV)]. (b) ]>

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. <[I pray for them--not as individuals merely, but as representatives of all such in every succeeding age not for the world--for they had been given Him "out of the world" (John 17:6), and had been already transformed into the very opposite of it. The things sought for them, indeed, are applicable only to such. (a) Jesus, here, prays on behalf of all of his followers to his Father, Almighty God (YHWH), clearly showing that the Son recognized his Father as supreme. (b) ]>

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. <[all mine are thine, and thine are mine--literally, "All My things are Thine and Thy things are Mine." (On this use of the neuter gender, Absolute COMMUNITY OF PROPERTY between the Father and the Son is here expressed as nakedly as words can do it. (a) Here Jesus as shown at 1 Corinthians 15:27-28, clearly recognizes that everything he has really belongs onto his Father in keeping with, "27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (AV) (b) ]>

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. <[I am no more in the but these are in the world--that is, Though My struggles are at an end, theirs are not; though I have gotten beyond the scene of strife, I cannot sever Myself in spirit from them, left behind and only just entering on their great conflict. Holy Father--an expression He nowhere else uses. "Father" is His wonted appellation, but "Holy" is here prefixed, because His appeal was to that perfection of the Father's nature, to "keep" or preserve them from being tainted by the unholy atmosphere of "the world" they were still in. keep through thine own name--rather, "in thy name"; in the exercise of that gracious and holy character for which He was known.
that they may be (a) Here he, the Son, Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) , says after returning to his Father, " And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world," and asks that they, his followers, "be one, as we are," one. " Then he, the Son, continues, "and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me," (part of John 17:8 AV) showing that his followers would surely know that they were one is purpose, "12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:12-16 AV) and "9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (Ephesians 3:9-14 AV). These clearly show that Almighty God (YHWH) and Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) although not one in body, are one in purpose, and since the Father has given mankind to the Son for the present time, we should all recognize the Son as the only mediator between God and mankind, " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (1 Timothy 2:5 AV). (b) ]>

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. <[I kept--guarded. them in thy name--acting as Thy Representative on earth.
none of them is lost, but the son of perdition--It is not implied here that the son of perdition was one of those whom the Father had given to the Son, but rather the contrary (John 13:18) [WEBSTER and WILKINSON]. It is just as in Luke 4:26,27, where we are not to suppose that the woman of Sarepta (in Sidon) was one of the widows of Israel, nor Naaman the Syrian one of the lepers in Israel, though the language--the same as here--might seem to express it. son of perdition--doomed to it (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 14:21). (a) ]>

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. <[I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves--that is, Such a strain befits rather the upper sanctuary than the scene of conflict; but I speak so "in the world," that My joy, the joy I experience in knowing that such intercessions are to be made for them by their absent Lord, may be tasted by those who now hear them, and by all who shall hereafter read the record of them, (a) Here Jesus speaks of his ascending back to heaven and that his followers should be happy as he has provided the ransom sacrifice for all his followers that they may have life. " Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:28 AV), as he was, " What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (John 6:62 AV) to be figuratively speaking to show that he was second in heaven " Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;" (Hebrews 8:1 AV) (b) ]>

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.<[ Here Jesus tells his Father in heaven that he has given his followers his Fathers word, but the world hated them because they were no longer part of the world, " Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." (James 4:4 AV) (b) ]>

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. <[ I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world--for that, though it would secure their own safety, would leave the world unblessed by their testimony. but . . . keep them from the evil--all evil in and of the world. (a) Here Jesus showed that his followers would not be popular and asked his Father to protect them against evil showing he recognized his Father as the superior. Clearly they would not be poplar and would be small in number as shown "13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Matthew 7:13-14 AV) (b) ]>

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. <[ They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world--(See John 5:18,19). This is reiterated here, to pave the way for the prayer which follows (a) ]>

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. <[ Sanctify them--As the former prayer, "Keep them," was "negative," asking protection for them from the poisonous element which surrounded and pressed upon their renewed nature, so this prayer, "Sanctify them," is positive, asking the advancement and completion of their begun sanctification. through--in. thy truth--God's revealed truth, as the medium or element of sanctification; a statement this of immense importance. thy word is truth--(Compare John 15:3, Colossians 1:5, Ephesians 1:13). (a) Here he request that his Father (YHWH) sanctify his followers through his word as Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) clearly shows that he knows that his Father's word is "thy word is truth." (b) ]>

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. <[ As thou hast sent--sentest. me into the world, even so have I also sent them--sent I also them. into the world--As their mission was to carry into effect the purposes of their Master's mission, so our Lord speaks of the authority in both cases as co-ordinate. (a) Once more, Jesus emphases that he was sent by his Father (YHWH), the superior, for a purpose and also emphases that he, Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) has sent them into the world to continue with his work in keeping with " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14 AV) (b) ]>

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. <[ And for their sakes I sanctify--consecrate. myself that they also might--may. be sanctified--consecrated. The only difference between the application of the same term to Christ and the disciples is, as applied to Christ, that it means only to "consecrate"; whereas, in application to the disciples, it means to consecrate with the additional idea of previous sanctification, since nothing but what is holy can be presented as an offering. The whole self-sacrificing work of the disciples appears here as a mere result of the offering of Christ [OLSHAUSEN]. through--in. the truth--Though the article is wanting in the original here, we are not to translate, as in the Margin, "truly sanctified"; for the reference seems plainly to be "the truth" mentioned in John 17:17. (a) ]>

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; <[ Neither pray I for these alone--This very important explanation, uttered in condescension to the hearers and readers of this prayer in all time, is meant not merely of what follows, but of the whole prayer. them also which shall believe--The majority of the best manuscripts read "which believe," all future time being viewed as present, while the present is viewed as past and gone. (a) ]>

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. <[ that they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may be one in us--The indwelling Spirit of the Father and the Son is the one perfect bond of union, knitting up into a living unity, first all believers amongst themselves; next, this unity into one still higher, with the Father and the Son. (Observe, that Christ never mixes Himself up with His disciples as He associates Himself with the Father, but says I in THEM and THEY in US).
that the world may believe that thou hast sent me--sentest me. So the grand impression upon the world at large, that the mission of Christ is divine, is to be made by the unity of His disciples. Of course, then, it must be something that shall be visible or perceptible to the world. What is it, then? Not certainly a merely formal, mechanical unity of ecclesiastical machinery. For as that may, and to a large extent does, exist in both the Western and Eastern churches, with little of the Spirit of Christ, yea much, much with which the Spirit of Christ cannot dwell so instead of convincing the world beyond its own pale of the divinity of the Gospel, it generates infidelity to a large extent within its own bosom. But the Spirit of Christ, illuminating, transforming, and reigning in the hearts of the genuine disciples of Christ, drawing them to each other as members of one family, and prompting them to loving co-operation for the good of the world--this is what, when sufficiently glowing and extended, shall force conviction upon the world that Christianity is divine. Doubtless, the more that differences among Christians disappear--the more they can agree even in minor matters--the impression upon the world may be expected to be greater. But it is not dependent upon this; for living and loving oneness in Christ is sometimes more touchingly seen even amidst and in spite of minor differences, than where no such differences exist to try the strength of their deeper unity. Yet till this living brotherhood in Christ shall show itself strong enough to destroy the sectarianism, selfishness, carnality, and apathy that eat out the heart of Christianity in all the visible sections of it, in vain shall we expect the world to be overawed by it. It is when "the Spirit shall be poured upon us from on high," as a Spirit of truth and love, and upon all parts of the Christian territory alike, melting down differences and heart burnings, kindling astonishment and shame at past unfruitfulness, drawing forth longings of catholic affection, and yearnings over a world lying in wickedness, embodying themselves in palpable forms and active measures--it is then that we may expect the effect here announced to be produced, and then it will be irresistible. Should not Christians ponder these things? Should not the same mind be in them which was also in Christ Jesus about this matter? Should not His prayer be theirs? (a) Here he, the Son, Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves), then he, the Son, continues, " For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me." (John 17:8 AV), showing that his followers would surely know that they were one is purpose, "12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:12-16 AV) and "9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (Ephesians 3:9-14 AV). These clearly show that Almighty God (YHWH) and Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) although not one in body, are one in purpose, and since the Father has given mankind to the Son for the present time, we should all recognize the Son as the only mediator between God and mankind, " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (1 Timothy 2:5 AV). (b) ]>

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: <[ And the glory which thou gavest--hast given. me I have given them, that they may be one, even as we are one--The last clause shows the meaning of the first. It is not the future glory of the heavenly state, but the secret of that present unity just before spoken of; the glory, therefore, of the indwelling Spirit of Christ; the glory of an accepted state, of a holy character, of every grace. (a) See second comment on John 17:21 above (b) ]>

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. <[ I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in (a) Once more Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) emphasis that his followers should be one in purpose just as he is one in purpose with his Father (YHWH), for more details see second comment on John 17:21 above. (b)]>

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. <[ Father, I will--The majesty of this style of speaking is quite transparent. No petty criticism will be allowed to fritter it away in any but superficial or perverted readers. be with me where I that they may behold my glory which thou hast given Christ regards it as glory enough for us to be admitted to see and gaze for ever upon His glory! This is "the beatific vision"; but it shall be no mere vision, for "we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is" (1 John 3:2). (a) ]>

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. <[ O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee--knew thee not. but I have known thee--knew thee. and these have known--knew. that thou hast sent--sentest me--As before He said "Holy Father," when desiring the display of that perfection on His disciples (John 17:11), so here He styles Him "Righteous Father," because He is appealing to His righteousness or justice, to make a distinction between those two diametrically opposite classes--"the world," on the one hand, which would not "know the Father, though brought so nigh to it in the Son of His love, and, on the other, Himself, who recognized and owned Him, and even His disciples, who owned His mission from the Father. (a) ]>

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. <[ And I have declared--I made known or communicated. thy name--in His past ministry. and will declare it--in yet larger measure, by the gift of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost and through all succeeding ages. that the love wherewith thou hast loved--lovedst. me may be in them, and I in them--This eternal love of the Father, resting first on Christ, is by His Spirit imparted to and takes up its permanent abode in all that believe in Him; and "He abiding in them and they in Him" (John 15:5), they are "one Spirit." "With this lofty thought the Redeemer closes His prayer for His disciples, and in them for His Church through all ages. He has compressed into the last moments given Him for conversation with His own the most sublime and glorious sentiments ever uttered by mortal lips. But hardly has the sound of the last word died away, when He passes with the disciples over the brook Kedron to Gethsemane--and the bitter conflict draws on. The seed of the new world must be sown in Death, that thence Life may spring up" [OLSHAUSEN]. (a)]>

(a) - Brown, David, D.D. "Commentary on John 17". "Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, 1871.
(b) - Iris the Preacher, 2002.

THE FINAL CONFLICT:

But all true followers should strive for a good conscience and seek peace as shown in 1 Peter 3:16, "Having a good conscience: that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ." (AV). Remember, they did likewise to our leader, Jesus (Yeshua), because they did not like the Truths he spoke, John 18:19-23, "The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine. 20 Jesus aanswered him, I spake openly to the world; I even taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. 21 Why askest thou me? Ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said. 22 And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so? 23 Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?" (AV). This is the way of evil doers that can find no real wrong done by the true followers of God (YHWH) and his Son, Jesus (Yeshua) as affirmed at Acts 25:17-19, Therefore, when they were come hither, without any delay on the morrow I sat on the judgment seat, and commanded the man to be brought forth. 18 Against whom when the accusers stood up, they brought none accusation of such things as I supposed: 19 But had certain questions against him of their own superstitution, and of one Jesus, which was dead, whom Paul affirmed to be alive." (AV); and it is likewise today, clearly showing we are living in the time of the end.

Likewise at John 19:11-16, "You would have no authority at all over me', Jesus replied, 'if it had not been granted you from above; and therefore the deeper guilt lies with the man who handed me over to you.' From that moment Pilate tried hard to release him; but the jews kept shouting, 'If you let this man go, you are no friend to Caesar; any man who claims to be a king is defying Caesar." When Pilate heard what they were saying, he brought Jesus out and took his seat on the tribunal at the place known as 'The Pavement' ('Gabbatha' in the language of the Jews). It was the eve of Passover, 'about noon. Pilate said to the Jews, 'Here is your king.' They shouted, 'Away with him! Away with him! Crucify him!' 'Crucify your king?' said Pilate. 'We have no king but Caesar', the Jews replied. Then at last, to satisfy them, he handed Jesus over to be crucified." (NEB). Here clearly we can see the spirit of this world prevailing over individuals that have been misguided by none other than Satan the Devil, just like many that have been deceived today.


He later, after his resurrection by his Father (YHWH) appeared to his disciples as stated at John 20:19-23, and told them many things and especially this, "as the Father sent me, so I send you," clearly showing his Father (YHWH) a superior one had sent him, "Late that Sunday evening, when the disciples were together behind locked doors, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. 'Peace be with you!' he said, and then showed them his hands and his side. So when the disciples saw the Lord, they were filled with joy. Jesus repeated, 'Peace be with you!' and then said, 'As the Father sent me, so I send you.' He then breathed on them, saying, 'Receive the Holy Spirit! If you forgive any man's sins, they stand forgiven; if you pronounce them unforgiven, unforgiven they remain." (NEB)

He later appeared to the Apostles by the Sea of Tiberias and had breakfast an emphasis the need to feed his 'sheep' at John 21:15-17, "After breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, 'Simon son of John, do you love more than all else?' 'Yes, Lord,' he answered, "you know that I love you.' 'Then feed my lambs', he said. A second time he asked, 'Simon son of John, do you love me?' 'Yes, Lord, you know I love you.' 'Then tend my sheep.' A third time he said, 'Simon son of John, do you love me?' Peter was hurt that he asked him a third time, 'Do you love me?' 'Lord," he said, 'you know everything; you know I love you. Jesus said, 'Feed my sheep.'" (NEB). Clearly we have seen that the book of John is clearly anti-Trinitarian, and if we want to please God (YHWH) we should not believe in fables and myths that the scripture plainly shows at 1 Timothy 4:7 are nothing but old wives tales, "but refuse profane and old wives' fables. And exercise thyself unto godliness;" (ASV).

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE BIBLE AND RELIGION – BOTH TRUE AND FALSE – AT WWW.JW.ORG

COMBINATION OF [1]  THE SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY AND [2]  THE END OF THIS SYSTEM IS COMING: 


[1]       SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY [VOL. 854A]

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?   Matthew 24:3,  [authorized King James Bible; AV]

Jesus (Yeshua) answered them at Matthew 24:4 – 6, [AV] “And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.  5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.” Clearly showing the time for the end of the world (system of things) was still in the future.  At Matthew 24:36, [AV], he revealed, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” The date for the end was NOT known by him, but only known to his father.  But he did reveal to his disciples how the beginning of the culmination of the end times sould be at Matthew 24:7, [AV] “For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.  8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.”  And that it would be necessary for all his followers per Matthew 12 – 13, [AV] “And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.  13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” To stand fast with being his genuine followers during this period. 

TO LEARN MORE ABOUT RELIGION AND THE BIBLE, GO TO, 

1) http://iris89.conforums.com/ 

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/ 

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/ 

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/ 

5) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/ 

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/ 

7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/ 

To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/thread/1417398076/last-1417398076/Digital+Book+On+18+Part+Follow+Christ+Bible+Study 

Your Friend in Christ Iris89 

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to WWW.JW.ORG!

[2]   THE END OF THIS SYSTEM IS COMING:

The end of this system is coming and do not be mislead by false prophets, " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36 AV), with that said let’s go to the events in Genesis, "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." (Genesis 2:1-7 AV). Here we see how Satan deceived the original pair to deviate from God’s laws and principles. Next, Satan challenged God in front of all the other heavenly creatures, i.e., Satan was attacking God’s position as the Most High. By saying, "Ye shall not surely die," which was a direct contradiction of God’s words. By this he was implying that God was keeping the pair ignorant of the possibility of becoming like God, and there fore not needing God, i.e., he was challenging God’s position as the Universal Sovereign, "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:1-5 AV). Satan the Devil also insinuated that people would remain obedient to Jehovah only as long as obeying God was to their advantage.
At that point, God could have destroyed Satan, on the spot, but did not as all the other heavenly creatures he had created would have wondered for ever more if Satan might have been right. Instead God allowed Satan an opportunity for a time to prove his boastful challenge. For example, the entire book of Job is about one opportunity God gave him to prove this challenge and he proved incapable of doing so, see the book of Job for details.
Now the reason for all the suffering we are undergoing now is due to the Devil’s efforts to prove his boastful challenge. He is using all his weapons against mankind, and especially his principle weapons: hate of fellow man, deviant sex, hedonism, and GREED. With these he is having a measure of success as one can readily see by world events. Therefore, it is not God, but the Devil that the world is so tortured today. This is NOT what a loving God had in mind when he created us, but a condition brought on mankind by Satan.
However, God is not going to let this condition continue on a downward spiral forever, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 ¶ Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." (Revelations 12:9-12 AV). Thus conditions right now are bad and getting worse due to Satan being thrown out of Heaven to the earth.
However, soon God will have his son throw Satan into an abyss and turn things around on the earth, i.e., things will get worse before they get better. " And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years," (Revelation 20:2 AV). After this happens, righteous conditions will be restored to the earth and the misery we now live in under secular authorities will be replaced by good conditions and righteous rule. Now go do your homework and read the first five chapters of Genesis, the book of Job, and the book of Revelations with a view of gaining understanding. 

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE BIBLE AND RELIGION – BOTH TRUE AND FALSE – AT WWW.JW.ORG

COMBINATION OF [1]  THE SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY AND [2]   PART 2 OF FOREKNOWLEDGE, FORE ORDINATION, [PART 1 IS AT VOL 855A ]


[1]       SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY [VOL. 856A]

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  Hebrews 11:1,  [authorized King James Bible; AV]

We must have faith to win Almighty God’S (YHWH’s) approval as clearly shown by the examples given at Hebrews 11:4 – 6, [AV] “By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5  By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.  6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”  And as Hebrews 10:22, [AV], says, “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.”   

TO LEARN MORE ABOUT RELIGION AND THE BIBLE, GO TO, 

1) http://iris89.conforums.com/ 

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/ 

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/ 

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/ 

5) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/ 

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/ 

7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/ 

To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/thread/1417398076/last-1417398076/Digital+Book+On+18+Part+Follow+Christ+Bible+Study 

Your Friend in Christ Iris89 

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to WWW.JW.ORG!

[2]  PART 2 OF FOREKNOWLEDGE, FORE ORDINATION, [PART 1 IS AT VOL 855A ]

God's Son, who also could read the hearts of men (Mt 9:4; Mr 2:8; Joh 2:24, 25), was divinely endowed with powers of foreknowledge and foretold future conditions, events, and expressions of divine judgment.  He foretold the judgment of Gehenna for the scribes and Pharisees as a class (Mt 23:15, 33) but did not say thereby that each individual Pharisee or scribe was foredoomed to destruction, as the case of the apostle Paul shows. (Ac 26:4, 5)  Jesus predicted woes for unrepentant Jerusalem and other cities, but he did not indicate that his Father had foreordained that each individual of those cities should so suffer. (Mt 11:20-23; Lu 19:41-44; 21:20, 21)  He also foreknew what mankind's inclination and heart attitude would lead to and foretold the conditions that would have developed among mankind by the time of "the end of the world," as well as the outworkings of God's own purposes. (Mt 24:3, 7-14, 21, 22)  Jesus' apostles likewise declared prophecies manifesting God's foreknowledge of certain classes, such as the "antichrist" (1Jo 2:18, 19; 2Jo 7), and also the end to which such classes are foreordained.-2Th 2:3-12; 2Pe 2:1-3; Jude 4.

Concerning individuals.  In addition to foreknowledge concerning classes, certain individuals are specifically involved in divine forecasts.  These include Esau and Jacob (mentioned earlier), the Pharaoh of the Exodus, Samson, Solomon, Josiah, Jeremiah, Cyrus, John the Baptizer, Judas Iscariot, and God's own Son Jesus.

In the cases of Samson, Jeremiah, and John the Baptizer, God exercised foreknowledge prior to their birth.  This foreknowledge, however, did not specify what their final destiny would be.  Rather, on the basis of such foreknowledge, God foreordained that Samson should live according to the Nazirite vow and should initiate the deliverance of Israel from the Philistines, that Jeremiah should serve as a prophet, and that John the Baptizer should do a preparatory work as a forerunner of the Messiah. (Jg 13:3-5; Jer 1:5; Lu 1:13-17)  While highly favored by such privileges, this did not guarantee their gaining eternal salvation or even that they would remain faithful until death (although all three did).  Thus, God foretold that one of David's many sons would be named Solomon and he foreordained that Solomon would be used to build the temple. (2Sa 7:12, 13; 1Ki 6:12; 1Ch 22:6-19)  However, though favored in this way and even privileged to write certain books of the Holy Scriptures, Solomon nevertheless fell into apostasy in his later years.-1Ki 11:4, 9-11.

Likewise with Esau and Jacob, God's foreknowledge did not fix their eternal destinies but, rather, determined, or foreordained, which of the national groups descending from the two sons would gain a dominant position over the other. (Ge 25:23-26)  This foreseen dominance also pointed to the gaining of the right of the firstborn by Jacob, a right that brought along with it the privilege of being in the line of descent through which the Abrahamic "seed" would come. (Ge 27:29; 28:13, 14)  By this means God made clear that his choice of individuals for certain uses is not bound by the usual customs or procedures conforming to men's expectations.  Nor are divinely assigned privileges to be dispensed solely on the basis of works, which might allow a person to feel he has 'earned the right' to such privileges and that they are 'owed to him.'  The apostle Paul stressed this point in showing why God, by undeserved kindness, could grant to the Gentile nations privileges once seemingly reserved for Israel.-Ro 9:1-6, 10-13, 30-32.

Paul's quotations concerning God's 'love for Jacob [Israel] and his hatred for Esau [Edom]' comes from Malachi 1:2, 3, written long after Jacob and Esau's time.  So the Bible does not necessarily say that God held such opinion of the twins before their birth.  It is a scientifically established fact that much of a child's general disposition and temperament is determined at the time of conception because of the genetic factors contributed by each parent.  That God can see such factors is self-evident; David speaks of God as seeing "my substance [or, "my embryo"]." (Ps 139:14-16; see also Ec 11:5.)  To what extent such divine insight affected God's foreordination concerning the two boys cannot be said, but at any rate, his choice of Jacob over Esau did not of itself doom Esau or his descendants, the Edomites, to destruction. Even individuals from among the accursed Canaanites gained the privilege of association with God's covenant people and received blessings. (Ge 9:25-27; Jos 9:27)  The "change of mind" that Esau earnestly sought with tears, however, was only an unsuccessful attempt to change his father Isaac's decision that the firstborn's special blessing should remain entirely with Jacob.  Hence, this indicated no repentance before God on Esau's part as to his materialistic attitude.-Ge 27:32-34; Heb 12:16, 17.

God's prophecy concerning Josiah called for some descendant of David to be so named, and it foretold his acting against false worship in the city of Bethel. (1Ki 13:1, 2)  Over three centuries later a king so named fulfilled this prophecy. (2Ki 22:1; 23:15, 16)  On the other hand, he failed to heed "the words of Necho from the mouth of God," and this led to his being killed. (2Ch 35:20-24)  Hence, while foreknown by God and foreordained to do a particular work, Josiah was still a free moral agent able to choose to heed or disregard advice.

Similarly, God foretold nearly two centuries beforehand that he would use a conqueror named Cyrus to effect the release of the Jews from Babylon. (Isa 44:26-28; 45:1-6)  But the Persian to whom that name eventually was given in fulfillment of divine prophecy is not stated in the Bible to have become a genuine worshiper of God, and secular history shows him continuing his worship of false gods.

These cases of foreknowledge prior to the individual's birth thus do not conflict with God's revealed qualities and announced standards.  Nor is there any indication that God coerced the individuals to act against their own will. In the cases of Pharaoh, Judas Iscariot, and God's own Son, there is no evidence that God's foreknowledge was exercised prior to the person's coming into existence.  Within these individual cases certain principles are illustrated, bearing on God's foreknowledge and foreordination.

One such principle is God's testing of individuals by causing or allowing certain circumstances or events, or by causing such individuals to hear his inspired messages, the result being that they are obliged to exercise their free choice to make a decision and thus reveal a definite heart attitude, read by God. (Pr 15:11; 1Pe 1:6, 7; Heb 4:12, 13)  According to the way the individuals respond, God can also mold them in the course they have selected of their own volition. (1Ch 28:9; Ps 33:13-15; 139:1-4, 23, 24)  Thus, 'the heart of earthling man' first inclines toward a certain way before God does the directing of the steps of such a one. (Pr 16:9; Ps 51:10)  Under testing, one's heart condition can become fixed, either hardened in unrighteousness and rebellion or made firm in unbreakable devotion to God and the doing of his will. (Job 2:3-10; Jer 18:11, 12; Ro 2:4-11; Heb 3:7-10, 12-15)  Having reached such a point of his own choice, the end result of the individual's course can now be foreknown and foretold with no injustice and no violation of man's free moral agency.-Compare Job 34:10-12.

The case of faithful Abraham, already discussed, illustrates these principles.  A contrasting case is that of the unresponsive Pharaoh of the Exodus.  God foreknew that Pharaoh would refuse permission for the Israelites to leave except "by a mighty hand" (Ex 3:19, 20), and he foreordained the plague resulting in the death of the firstborn. (Ex 4:22, 23)  The apostle Paul's discussion of God's dealings with Pharaoh is often incorrectly understood to mean that God arbitrarily hardens the heart of individuals according to his foreordained purpose, without regard for the individual's prior inclination, or heart attitude. (Ro 9:14-18)  Likewise, according to many translations, God advised Moses that he would "harden [Pharaoh's] heart." (Ex 4:21; compare Ex 9:12; 10:1, 27.)  However, some translations render the Hebrew account to read that God "let [Pharaoh's] heart wax bold" (Rotherham); "allow his [Pharaoh's] heart to be hardened" (Spurrell)  In support of such rendering, the appendix to Rotherham's translation shows that in Hebrew the occasion or permission of an event is often presented as if it were the cause of the event, and that "even positive commands are occasionally to be accepted as meaning no more than permission."  Thus at Exodus 1:17 the original Hebrew text literally says that the midwives "caused the male children to live," whereas in reality they permitted them to live by refraining from putting them to death.  After quoting Hebrew scholars M. M. Kalisch, H. F. W. Gesenius, and B. Davies in support, Rotherham states that the Hebrew sense of the texts involving Pharaoh is that "God permitted Pharaoh to harden his own heart-spared him-gave him the opportunity, the occasion, of working out the wickedness that was in him.  That is all."-Rotherham's "The Emphasised Bible," appendix, p. 919; compare Isa 10:5-7.

Corroborating this understanding is the fact that the record definitely shows that Pharaoh himself "hardened his heart." (Ex 8:15, 32, KJ; "made his heart dull," Rotherham; "he became stubborn" An American Translation; "he steeled his heart," Knox)  He thus exercised his own will and followed his own stubborn inclination, the results of which inclination God accurately foresaw and predicted.  The repeated opportunities given him by God obliged Pharaoh to make decisions, and in doing so he became hardened in his attitude. (Compare Ec 8:11, 12.)  As the apostle Paul shows by quoting Exodus 9:16, God allowed the matter to develop in this way to the full length of ten plagues in order to make manifest his own power and cause his name to be made known earth wide.-Ro 9:17, 18.

Did God predestine Judas to betray Jesus in order to fulfill prophecy?
The traitorous course of Judas Iscariot fulfilled divine prophecy and demonstrated God's foreknowledge as well as that of his Son. (Ps 41:9; 55:12, 13; 109:8; Ac 1:16-20)  Yet it cannot be said that God foreordained or predestinated Judas himself to such a course.  The prophecies foretold that some intimate acquaintance of Jesus would be his betrayer, but they did not specify which of those sharing such acquaintance it would be.  Again, Bible principles rule against God's having foreordained Judas' actions.  The divine standard stated by the apostle is: "Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure." (1Ti 5:22; compare 1Ti 3:6.)  Evidencing his concern that the selection of his 12 apostles be wisely and properly made, Jesus spent the night in prayer to his Father before making known his decision. (Lu 6:12-16)  If Judas were already divinely foreordained to be a traitor, this would result in inconsistency in God's direction and guidance and, according to the rule, would make him a sharer in the sins that one committed.

Thus, it seems evident that at the time of his being selected as an apostle, Judas' heart presented no definite evidence of a treasonous attitude.  He allowed a 'poisonous root to spring up' and defile him, resulting in his deviation and in his accepting, not God's direction, but the Devil's leading in a course of thievery and treachery. (Heb 12:14, 15; Joh 13:2; Ac 1:24, 25; Jas 1:14, 15.)  By the time such deviation reached a certain point, Jesus himself could read Judas' heart and foretell his betrayal.-Joh 13:10, 11.

True, in the account at John 6:64, on the occasion of some disciples stumbling over certain teachings of Jesus, we read that "For Jesus knew from the beginning ["from the outset," Jerusalem Bible; "from early days," Rieu] who they were that believed not, and who should betray him." While the word "beginning" (Gr., ar?khe') is used at 2 Peter 3:4 to refer to the start of creation, it can also refer to other times. (Lu 1:2; Joh 15:27)  For example, when the apostle Peter spoke of the holy spirit falling on Gentiles just as it did also "as us at the beginning," he obviously was not referring to the beginning of his discipleship or apostleship but to an important point in his ministry, the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E., "the beginning" of the outpouring of the holy spirit for a certain purpose. (Ac 11:15; 2:1-4)  It is therefore interesting to note this comment on John 6:64 in Lange's Commentary on the Holy Scriptures (p. 227): "Beginning . . . means not, metaphysically from the beginning of all things, . . . nor from the beginning of His [Jesus'] acquaintance with each one, . . . nor from the beginning of His collecting of the disciples around Him, or the beginning of His Messianic ministry, . . . but from the first secret germs of unbelief [that produced the stumbling of some disciples].  So also He knew His betrayer from the beginning."-Translated and edited by P. Schaff, 1976; compare 1Jo 3:8, 11, 12.

Foreordination of the Messiah.  God foreknew and foretold the Messiah's sufferings, the death he would undergo, and his subsequent resurrection. (Ac 2:22, 23, 30, 31; 3:18; 1Pe 1:10, 11)  The realization of things determined by God's exercise of such foreknowledge depended in part upon God's own exercise of power and in part upon the actions of men. (Ac 4:27, 28)  Such men, however, willingly allowed themselves to be overreached by God's Adversary, Satan the Devil. (Joh 8:42-44; Ac 7:51-54)  Hence, even as Christians in Paul's day were "not ignorant of his [Satan's] devices," God foresaw the wicked desires and methods the Devil would devise against Jesus Christ, God's Anointed One. (2Co 2:11)  Obviously, God's power could also thwart or even block any attacks or attempts upon the Messiah that did not conform to the manner or time prophesied.-Compare Mt 16:21; Lu 4:28-30; 9:51; Joh 7:1, 6-8; 8:59.

The apostle Peter's statement that Christ, as the sacrificial Lamb of God, was "was foreordained before the foundation [form of Greek ka?ta?bo?le'] of the world [ko'smou]" is construed by advocates of predestinarianism to mean that God exercised such foreknowledge before mankind's creation. (1Pe 1:19, 20)  The Greek word ka?ta?bo?le', translated "foundation [KJV]" literally means "a throwing down" and can refer to the 'conceiving of seed,' as at Hebrews 11:11.  While there was 'the founding' of a world of mankind when God created the first human pair, as is shown at Hebrews 4:3, 4, that pair thereafter forfeited their position as children of God. (Ge 3:22-24; Ro 5:12)  Yet, by God's undeserved kindness, they were allowed to conceive seed and produce offspring, one of whom is specifically shown in the Bible to have gained God's favor and placed himself in position for redemption and salvation, namely, Abel. (Ge 4:1, 2; Heb 11:4)  It is noteworthy that at Luke 11:49-51 Jesus refers to "the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world" and parallels this with the words "from the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias [Zechariah]."  Thus, Abel is connected by Jesus with 'the founding of the world.'

The Messiah, or Christ, was to be the promised Seed through whom all righteous persons of all the families of the earth would be blessed. (Ga 3:8, 14)  The first mention of such "seed" came after the rebellion in Eden had already been initiated, but prior to the birth of Abel. (Ge 3:15)  This was some 4,000 years before  "the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began," and was made by the clear identification of that Messianic "seed."  Hence, it was, indeed, "in other ages was not made known ."-Ro 16:25-27; Eph 1:8-10; 3:4-11.

In his due time God God assigned his own firstborn Son to fulfill the prophesied role of the "seed" and become the Messiah.  There is nothing to show that the Son was predestined to such a role before rebellion broke out in Eden. God's eventual selection of him as the one charged with fulfilling the prophecies likewise was not made without prior basis.  The period of intimate association between God and his Son previous to the Son's being sent to earth undoubtedly resulted in God's 'knowing' his Son to an extent that He could be certain of his Son's faithful fulfillment of the prophetic promises and pictures.-Compare Ro 15:5; Php 2:5-8; Mt 11:27; Joh 10:14, 15.

Fatalism and Predestinarianism.  Among the pagan peoples of ancient times, including the Greeks and Romans, one's fate, particularly the length of the individual's life, was often considered to be determined beforehand for all individuals by the gods.  Grecian mythology represented the control of men's destiny by three goddesses: Clotho (spinner), who spun the thread of life; Lachesis (disposer of lots), who determined the length of life; and Atropos (inflexible), who cut life off when the time expired. A similar triad was found among the Roman deities.

According to Jewish historian Josephus (first century C.E.), the Pharisees endeavored to harmonize the idea of fate with their belief in God and with the free moral agency granted to man. (The Jewish War, II, 162, 163 [viii, 14]; Jewish Antiquities, XVIII, 13, 14 [i, 3])  The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge says: "Previous to Augustine [of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E.] there was no serious development in Christianity of a theory of predestination."  Before Augustine, earlier so-called "Church Fathers" such as Justin, Origen, and Irenaeus "know nothing of unconditional predestination; they teach free will." (Hastings' Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, 1919, Vol. X, p. 231)  In their refutation of Gnosticism, they are described as regularly expressing their belief in the free moral agency of man as "the distinguishing characteristic of human personality, the basis of moral responsibility, a divine gift whereby man might choose that which was well-pleasing to God," and as speaking of "the autonomy of man and the counsel of God who constraineth not."-The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, edited by S. Jackson, 1957, Vol. IX, pp. 192, 193. 

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE BIBLE AND RELIGION – BOTH TRUE AND FALSE – AT WWW.JW.ORG

COMBINATION OF [1]  THE SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY AND [2]  THE RARE FRUIT AND VEGETABLES -  Stelechocarpus burahol.


[1]       SCRIPTURE OF THE DAY [VOL. 858A]

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.  6  In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths   Proverbs 3:5 – 6,  [authorized King James Bible; AV]

Remember Psalms 62:8, [AV] “The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of God, the God of Israel.” Clearly shows his power and why we should not rest on our own understanding.  This is made even clearer at Proverbs 28:26, [AV] “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.”   

TO LEARN MORE ABOUT RELIGION AND THE BIBLE, GO TO, 

1) http://iris89.conforums.com/ 

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/ 

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/ 

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/ 

5) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/ 

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/ 

7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/ 

To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/thread/1417398076/last-1417398076/Digital+Book+On+18+Part+Follow+Christ+Bible+Study 

Your Friend in Christ Iris89 

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to WWW.JW.ORG!

[2]   Here is a Commentary on Bountiful Trees and Vegetables God (YHWH) has provided for mankind, specifically the Stelechocarpus burahol, known as the burahol,[2] kepel, kepel fruit, keppel fruit, or kepel apple, is an annonaceous plant from the humid evergreen forests of Southeast Asia,[3] known for producing an edible fruit. The fruit is grown only in central Java, Indonesia.[4]
The plant is an evergreen, with stiff, elliptical, glossy leaves.[5]
The fruits of S. burahol grow on the lower part of the trunk,[4] on the larger branches.[5] They have a spicy flavor akin to that of the mango.[4] They are greenish-yellow and oval, 3–4 centimetres (1.2–1.6 in) long.[5] The new growth is bright pink or burgundy,[3] known for producing an edible fruit.
One can propagate S. burahol from the seeds of ripe fruit.[citation needed]
The fruit of this species has traditionally been known in Java to have value as an oral deodorant. Out of the pulp, seed and peel, the peel has the best adsorbent ability. A 2012 study showed that it reduced the odor of feces by activating the probiotic bacteria Bifidobacterium bifidum.[6] Stelechocarpus burahol is also an antihyperuricemic, and has traditionally been used to treat gout.[7]
This fruit is an identity flora of Daerah Istimewa Jogjakarta. Stelechocarpus burahol was loved by Javanese princesses because it was a symbol of unity and mental and physical integrity. Because it functioned as a deodorant, many common people did not have this tree planted because they believed they would get cursed. That made this tree rare.[citation needed]
This fruit was also believed to be used by Javanese princesses as contraception. The fruit is believed to have the function of preventing kidney inflammation. The wood can be made into house tools, the leaves used to lower cholesterol.[citation needed]
This rare fruit can be found at Keraton Jogjakarta area, Taman Mini Indonesia Indah, Taman Kiai Langgeng Magelang and Kebun Raya Bogor.[citation needed]
References

Wikimedia Commons has media related to Stelechocarpus burahol.
    1.
    • "Stelechocarpus burahol (Blume) Hook.f. & Thomson". Integrated Taxonomic Information System. Retrieved 21 June 2012.
    • "Stelechocarpus burahol". Natural Resources Conservation Service PLANTS Database. USDA. Retrieved 1 December 2015.
    • Tropical & Subtropical Trees: an encyclopedia, Margaret Barwick, Timber Press (C) 2004, p. 381
    • "Kepel Stelechocarpus burahol". tradewindsfruit.com. Retrieved 21 June 2012.
    • Encyclopaedia of Food Science, Food Technology, and Nutrition: Eating habits-gelatine, R. Macrae, Richard Kenneth Robinson, Michèle J. Sadler, Academic Press, 1993, pp. 2, 126.
    • Darusman, H.S.; Rahminiwati, M.; Sadiah, S.; Batubara, I.; Darusman, L.K.; Mitsunaga, T. (2 November 2011). "Indonesian Kepel Fruit (Stelechocarpus burahol) as Oral Deodorant". Research Journal of Medicinal Plants. 6 (2): 180–188. doi:10.3923/rjmp.2012.180.188. ISSN 1819-3455. OCLC 761052058. Retrieved 1 March 2018.
    • Arief Rahman Hakim; Indah Purwantini; Purwantiningsih (2010). "Antihyperuricemic activity of the Kepel [Stelechocarpus burahol (Bl.) Hook. F. & Th.] leaves extract and xanthine oxidase inhibitory study" (PDF). International Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences. 2 (2): 123–127.   ?[SOURCE - RETRIVED FROM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stelechocarpus_burahol  ON   3/17/2018]
Seeds can be obtained from Tradewinds, and here is their catalog description,   2444 - Stelechocarpus burahol - Kepel
An rare relative in the Annonaceae family (cherimoya, sugar apple). Bears brown fruits about the size of an orange, with highly aromatic flesh that has a passing taste resemblance to fruity-coconut. Fruits are born directly from the trunk. A large tree and is ultra-tropical, will not stand frosts or temperatures below 50F for any extended period of time. 

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE BIBLE AND RELIGION – BOTH TRUE AND FALSE – AT WWW.JW.ORG