Religious Truths

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



5/27/2014 5:39 am  #1


British Muslim Community

HI EVERYONE

THIS INDIVIDUAL HAS BEEN TRYING TO MISLEAD ON MANY PLACES, BUT HE IS A HYPOCRIT IN HE ALWAYS ERASES WHAT I PUT ON HIS FORUM.   NOW READ HIS FOLLOWING B.S., AND THEN MINE ON THE SUBJECT AT THE END.  AND THIN IN MY POST BELOW IT REALLY LEARN REALITY.


Masajid, Imams, Muslim schools and Madrassas are not teaching hatred against non-Muslims.  They teach Muslim children that homosexuality  is a sin. This does not mean that they are teaching hatred.
 Terrorism and sexual grooming is nothing to do with Masajid, Imams and Muslim schools. Those Muslim youths who have been involved in terrorism and sexual grooming are the product of western education system which makes a man stupid, selfish and corrupt. They find themselves cut off from their cultural heritage, literature and poetry. They suffer from identity crises and I blame British schooling. In 1835, Lord Macaulay said about India in British Parliament: “I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native self-culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation”. This lead to a clear strategy that was implemented systematically. The largest ethnic minority groups in British schools are children of Pakistani origin: a community often accused of resisting assimilation and integration. Ann Cryer, the MP for Keighley blamed Imams for not speaking English. She should blame British schooling for not teaching Urdu/Arabic to Pakistani children, thus depriving them of understanding the Sermons in Arabic/Urdu. They are unable to enjoy the beauty of Urdu/Arabic literature and poetry. Imams are not part of the problem rather than the solutions. There is a proposal to teach Urdu as a compulsory language instead of French and German in British schools. The British Government is urged to remove the requirement in the National Curriculum that children between the ages of 11-14 study at least one European language. The linguistic abilities of large number of Muslim children were being ignored because they had to learn another European language as well as mastering English. The Government must promote the status of Urdu language instead of languages of European origin. Tim Benson, head of Nelson primary school in Newham said that the “nationalistic curriculum failed to recognize the staggering array of linguistic abilities and competencies” in schools such as his, where the pupils spoke more than 40 languages. The linguistic dexterity of families speaking an array of languages was celebrated but the “awesome achievements” of children mastering three or four languages were barely recognised by the education system. Social and emotional education comes with your own language-literature and poetry. A DFEs document clearly states that children should be encouraged to maintain and develop their home languages. A study shows that bilingualism is a positive benefit to cognitive development and bilingual teacher is a dire necessity and is a role model. The price of ignoring children’s bilingualism is educational failure and social exclusion. Bilingualism could be developed by bringing a partner from Pakistan. The kids will get better at both languages. One will speak English while the other will speak Urdu.   The spirit of Crusade is still alive in the west. There is no difference between Hindu mentality and English mentality.  There are Islamophobic and anti-Muslim marches – or riots – and anti-mosque petitions and protests. In December, UKIP, which had recently elected a new leader, called for an outright ban on the burka and the Niqab. Earlier that month, a group called Stop the Islamification of Europe unfurled banners outside Harrow Mosque. In the same month, some 500 English Defence League members marched through Nottingham, some chanting “Allah, Allah, who the f**k is Allah?” On the eve of September 11, violence erupted after an English Defence League and Stop the Islamification of Europe protest near Harrow mosque. A few days earlier, gangs of youths hurled bottles at each other during an English Defence League rally in Birmingham.  There’s a difference between Islamophobia and the hatred of Muslims – although the two are indisputably linked. The target of the first is a religion. The target of the second is people. There’s a crucial distinction between the two – one vital if the free society’s to be preserved. If a person hates a religious faith, the law should be drawn very widely, if at all. If he hates religious people, it must be framed more tightly. For some Islamist organisations, Islamophobia is less a testing problem than a rhetorical device to delegitimise criticism - a shield behind which to advance on Ministerial patronage, taxpayers’ money, and legal concessions. Let’s be clear. When David Cameron said that the Cordoba Foundation shouldn’t get taxpayers’ money, he wasn’t being Islamophobic. Nor was Michael Gove when he argued that Hizb-ut-Tahrir shouldn’t control schools. Nor was Pauline Neville-Jones when she called for Ministers to review Tablighi Jamaat’s plans for a mega-mosque in East London. Exposure of such Islamist groups as the Islamic Forum of Europe – often voiced by mainstream Muslims themselves, who are Islamism’s main targets – is legitimate and necessary. Islamophobia/anti-Muslim hatred is too important a problem to be left for extreme groups to manipulate for their own ends.
I believe the Government have contributed to the 'blame' culture with regard to Muslims. They have overreacted with Terrorist laws and many arrests have been made under these laws of Muslims who have subsequently been released without charge. Muslims in this country have been a force for good, strong families and a hard work ethic. Actually, just as a point of fact, Jewish family law and Jewish 'courts' are an established part of British law, and have been for quite some time.  No one should hate anyone especially on the flimsy pretext of there religion, sexuality, race etc. When you hate you harm yourself far more than you could ever harm the person you hate. Hatred doesn't achieve anything positive. One of the problems we face is that some followers of radical Islam, have embraced hatred and justified it in the name of God. Fighting Fire with Fire will not work, as we have seen it simply feeds the flames. We have made glaring errors since 9-11, which has increased the danger that we all face. In many respects it has been our politicians that have increased the tensions between Islam and the Western World. As with all conflicts there comes a time when we must sue for peace, and enter into negotiations with the "enemy". The West has never been at ease with Islam since the Crusades. It is unfortunate that huge oil supplies lie under the Arabian Deserts. It is the West that stirred the trouble that led to 9/11. That attack was a desperate act of by men prepared to lose their life. We need to get to grips on who is the terrorist? On 24 November 1963, Lyndon Johnson said, "the battle against communism... must be joined... with strength and determination. Some three million lives were lost in the consequential battles. The US had to pull out due to Public Opinion. Communism lived on. So who was the terrorist?
IALondon School of Islamics Trust

NOW REALITY ON THIS SUBJECT:

IFTIKHAR ASKED FOR AN EXPLANATION, IN AN EMAIL SENT TO ME, AND I HAVE PROVIDED IT RIGHT AFTER HIS QUESTION THAT HE SHOULD WELL KNOW THE ANSWER FOR
 
He asked the following:
 
“Iftikhar Ahmad commented on a link you shared.
Iftikhar wrote: "OK, can someone explain the difference here for me... Why is it OK for the Church of England and Catholic church to run schools but this whole 'Islamic plot' thing means Islam can't run schools [or take them over by underhand means or whatever] in Birmingham? I thought Cameron/Gove liked Faith education? Is it just the wrong kind of faith? If a group wanted they could buy shares, a lot of shares, in a company and influence say Tesco to not sell pork products. I know it'd take a hell of a lot of money but it could be done surely? And it'd be legal? [genuine questions..] So why can't a group put themselves forward, become governors and mold the direction of a school to their liking. Isn't that the point of the Academies programme in the first place? Total fabrication to demonize the minorities in this country. Now this happened to another group in 1930s in Germany. The Daily Mail is always demanding that children be taught right from wrong. Well, here are the morality squads doing just that. Of course not everybody agrees on what "right and wrong" are, but the DM has overlooked that until now. The English getting a taste of their own medicine i.e. the ill-treatment of other cultures all around the globe, including the British Isles. Surprise, surprise they don't like it! UPROAR!!!! Segregating boys and girls in assembly in normal and routine in any school. Boy one side and girls the other. However, religious extremism is not. Single sex schools were meant to improve discipline and encourage pupils to concentrate on their work instead of on the opposite sex, not on religious grounds. Islam is a feature of UK life and if the C-of-E and Catholics get their schools, well only fair. And it fits with government policy is all. It is disgraceful that the media and government are creating this fear amongst our communities based on an unfounded and umsigned letter! There is no problem with schools being taken over by overtly christian groups so why should Muslims be any different? Racism is never acceptable, especially coming from the government. The nature and mannerism of such investigations is extremely suspicious and unfair. The investigators and auditors are going into school on the back of recent newspaper articles. This is alienating the community and harbouring tension. This witch-hunt and scapegoating can only lead to divisions and lack of trust within communities. This xenophobic attitude that is becoming more prominent within our society is one of the biggest threats to our peace and harmony. the apparent Islamophobia displayed by the organisations involved in this so called investigation is disgraceful! not to mention the way they have disrupted the children preparations for their forthcoming exams and potentially their future with what appears to be their warped spin and interpretation of their selective 'observations' made within these schools. To add to this the governments response is most abhorrent. What if Muslim staff had complained of being side lined by an Islamophobic SLT within their school? Would this too have been given this much attention? IA"
 
 
MY ANSWER WITH EVIDENCE AND SOURCES:
 
You should well know why. 
 
[1]  When did Catholics who are anti-gay ever teach students that gays should be stoned to death?
 
[details, “A Muslim hardliner who says adulterers should be stoned to death and that gay men and fornicators should be lashed 100 times has set up an Islamic school that has received almost £1million of taxpayers’ money.
Ibrahim Hewitt, one of Britain’s most prominent Islamic firebrands – who also heads a charity branded a ‘terrorist’ organisation by the US – is the founder and chairman of trustees of the Al-Aqsa school in Leicester, which teaches 250 boys and girls aged between three and 11.
He has vilified homosexuals as paedophiles and said a man can take on a second wife if his first fails to satisfy him sexually. Mr Hewitt has published his views in a book on Islam, which he claims has sold more than 50,000 copies in Britain.” …Ibrahim Hewitt, chairman of Al-Aqsa school said that all adulterers should be stoned to death and fornication should be punished with 100 lashes.” [source - retrieved from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...death.html on 4/21 /2014] 
 
Yes, these actions by gays and homosexuals are deplorable, but in no way as deplorable as recommended Islamic punishment.
 
[2]  Adultery is deplorable, but Islamic idea of punishment for same is much more deplorable; to wit, “Authority in Leicester as an early years grant for teaching three to five-year-olds since 2007.
The preacher is the author of a book called What Does Islam Say?, which spells out his vision of ‘true Islam’. In it he advocates the killing of adulterers by stoning. The book says: ‘Any act that destabilises marriage will also destabilise society. Hence the Islamic punishments for such acts are severe… Married men and women found guilty of adultery are to be stoned to death.’” [source - retrieved from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...death.html on 4/21 /2014] 
 
[3]  Prima donna thinking by Islamize is totally unacceptable.   They are against melting in and/or integrating into society; whereas, Catholic and Anglican churches are for integration.  ISOLATIONIST thinking is definitely what good education is all about, so get real.
 
[4]  The founder of Islam was a pedophile and child marriages are still a feature of Islam in many countries, but a Muslim school authority is so hypocritical as to write, “Mr Hewitt says in the book: ‘Islam, like most other major faiths of the world, categorically forbids homosexual practices (sexual relations between two men or between two women), regarding them as a great sin. In a society under Islamic law, such would be severely punished.’
He then compares homosexuals to paedophiles or those who commit incest. The book says: ‘If people have such desires [homosexuality], they should keep them to themselves, and control their desires to avoid forbidden practices.”  [source - retrieved from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...death.html on 4/21 /2014] 
 
More details,
 
(1)  MUHAMMAD WAS A SEX PERVERT – SEE THE PROOF
 
Muhammad was a violent sexual pervert, who formed a false religion that has 1.4 billion followers today.  Muslims who practice Islam have been prepared and are held in reserve at this hour to serve as God’s servants, instruments of war from His armory, to punish a disobedient world, and in particular, rebellious stiff-necked apostate Jews.
Pervert Muhammad married eleven or thirteen women.  Historians sanitize this filth by jabbering about things like “needs of the tribe,” politics, compassion and “affairs of the heart.” 
When he was 25, Muhammad married his wealthy employer, a 40-year-old merchant named (1) Khadijah.  He was her gigolo; he used her wealth to dally in dreams and pretend he had been told things by God.  When he was 40 he claimed to have been visited by the angel Gabriel who revealed to him a verse from the Qur’an, after which he claimed to be a prophet.  He spent long hours “meditating” and “speculating” about the creation.  He claimed a series of visions occurred while he was hanging out in caves and in the hills and ravines near Mecca. 
After Khadijah died, Muhammad married (2) Sawda bint Zam’a, (3)Aisha and (4)Umm Salam.  Aisha was six when she was betrothed to Muhammed; the marriage was consummated when she was nine or ten. In later years she slipped off to look for an allegedly “lost” wedding necklace, giving rise to claims she was up to mischief with some man.  Not to worry; Muhammed got some verses written and out into the public mainstream bespeaking her innocence and condemning anyone who said otherwise as slanderers.
After killing her husband, during the Muslim war with Mecca, Muhammad married (5)Hafsa bint Umar when she was 20 (he was 56).  Similarly, after she was widowed at the battle of Badr, Muhammed married (6)Zaynab bint Khuzayma.
When Abu Salamah died in battle, Muhammad married his widow, (7)Umm Salama Hin bitn Abi Umayya. In 626 (8)Raihanah bint Zaid was among those enslaved after the defeat of the Banu Quarayza tribe, and she became Muhammad’s concubine or wife.
Later, Muhammad married his cousin, (9)Zaynab bint Jahsh, after a lot of conflict related to her marriage and divorce with another man.  Muhammad decided in favor of this marriage to break the taboo against incestuous marriages, by informing everyone the Qur’an indicated this marriage was a duty imposed on him by God.
After he took captives from a skirmish with the Banu Mustaliq, he married one named (10)Juwayriya bint al-Harith, which led to his new kinsmen being released from enslavement.  Then he signed a peace treaty with his Meccan enemies, the Quraysh, and soon thereafter married the daughter of their leader, (11)Abu Sufyan ibn Harb, all for reconciling with his opponents of course. 
Muhammad sent a proposal for marriage to (12)Ramlah bint Abi-Sufyan when he learned her husband had died.  Then in 629, after the Battle of Khaybar, Muhammad freed (13)Safiyya bint Huyayy, a noblewoman of the defeated Jewish tribe Banu Nadir, and proposed marriage.  She accepted, so he married her as part of reconciliation with the Jewish tribe and a gesture of goodwill. 
If these women got into a cat fight about how Muhammad was treating them – in particular how much time or attention each received from him – he made up new rules that he claimed were revelations from God, to keep them in line.  When he died, he left word behind that no one could marry them according to God.  He kept these women in little apartments adjacent to the mosque at Medina, and visited them in rounds day and night. 
This was in between his warmongering, whereby he built an estate and army, which put in motion military expeditions that have influence still today.  The only thing that made Muhammad a “prophet” was his military successes.  In a single decade he fought eight major battles, led 18 raids, and planned 38 military operations.  He revolutionized Arabian warfare and mobilized an army motivated by an ideology of holy war (jihad) and martyrdom (shahada).  This transmitted to the West during the wars between Muslims and Christians in Spain and France, and gave the whore Roman Catholic Church an ideological justification for the Crusades. But for his success as a military commander, Islam would not have gained momentum leading to 1.4 billion practitioners today, making it the second largest religion behind Christianity, and the conquest of the Byzantine and Persian empires by Arab armies would not have occurred.  Muhammad transformed the armies of Arabia so his successors could use them to defeat the armies of Persia and Byzantium and establish the heartland of the empire of Islam.
Muhammad came along at a time when Muslims were in a defensive mode, often fighting to survive, many living in poverty and oppression.  Muhammad spent thirteen years building a spiritual platform; then the remaining ten years of his life as a leader in military mode, merging these notions – of spirituality and warfare – to establish the false religion known today as Islam.  Supposedly when he started preaching, Muhammad was not violent.  He is said to have been persecuted for preaching his religious ideas – known today as Islam – and denigrating the pagan religions of the Meccans.  He went to Medina after receiving a “revelation” to fight the Meccans, which caused him to turn to warfare.  His “revelation” coalesced with a group of feuding Arabs in Media who accepted him as their prophet, providing him with his first army.  He then began to preach that if anyone gained a victory of the men of Jews, they should kill them.  After some acts of violence where his men killed for him, he saw that he had power, and he became a cold blooded murderer of anyone Jewish or non-Muslim or otherwise categorized as his enemy.  This led to the brand of terrorism that has the whole world in fear today.  Millions of words have been written about Muhammad’s violence, with one example of these details found here: http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/terrorism.htm.  Most who claim to practice Islam today probably don’t even know these details.  Being the descendents of Ishmael, however, it’s of little relevance to them why; they just know they have a deep enmity in their DNA against Jews and the arrogant Americans who support them.
Muhammad was a sexual pervert, appointed by God to have military prowess, to put in motion the Islam people.  This prepared the world stage for the Last Days, so there would be a fierce people ready to afflict Israel, in God’s appointed time.  There was nothing holy about Muhammad; he was intelligent and charismatic – attributes given him by God – and he had a role to prepare the Arab people for what God has planned in the last days.  Anyone who worships him is worshiping a pedophile; Islam is a false religion, man-made, utterly unscriptural.  He was a whoremonger and warmonger, the perfect unclean raven to prepare a people to give the Beast a barbaric vicious army for when he becomes king of the world.  [source - retrieved from   http://www.godhatesislam.com/pervertmuhammad.html  on  3/10/2014]
 
 
(2)  “Reader’s Digest of 1/2013 Exposes Pedophiles As Still Being Tacitly Approved By Islam – Read Reality The Case Of Nujood Ali:
 
Nujood Ali was ten years old when a pedophile married her with no objections from local Muslim clergy. This was in keeping with what the false prophet Muhammad did in the 7 th. Century; to wit, , Aisha, a very young girl, was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated. Therefore, today Islam tacitly approves of pedophile marriages to children, i.e., child brides. Of course, not all members of Islam practice or approve of this wicked custom. For example, my husband has a very good Muslim friend from college days that definitely does not and would NEVER have done such a thing with his daughter. However, the religion tacitly approves of child brides, i.e., pedophiles taking young children as brides.
Let’s look at my bare bones of the Reader’s Digest article in the January 2013 issue entitled, “I Am Nujood, Age Ten and Divorced,” found on Pages 136 to 147 of that issue. Here is my short abstract in bullet form.
1 – Nujood Ali was only ten when married by a Muslim pedophile.
2 – She was ten when her request for divorce was granted at the age of 10.
3 – Her father had stated, “If you divorce him, my brothers and cousins will kill me!” Clearly showing that the Muslim community approved of child marriages.
4 – Judge Abdo was surprised when a ten year old came to him at court wanting a divorce.
5 – Her lawyer was Shada Nasser.
6 – She wanted an education, not marriage.
7 – She NEVER gave her consent to be married, it was forced on her.
I recommend all get a copy of the Reader’s Digest of January 2013 and read the entire article starting on Page 136. Note: most libraries will have a copy if you do not have one.
Now let’s review what an Encyclopedia has to say with respect Nujood Ali:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (source - retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nujood_Ali on 2/21/2013) 
Nujood Ali (born 1998) is a figure in Yemen's fight against forced marriage. At the age of ten, she obtained a divorce, breaking with the tribal tradition.[1][2] In November 2008, U.S. women's magazine Glamour designated Nujood Ali and her lawyer Shada Nasser as Women of the Year.[2][3] Ali's courage was praised by prominent women including Hillary Clinton and Condoleezza Rice.[4]
Ali's lawyer Shada Nasser, born in 1964, is a feminist and specialist in human rights, whose involvement in Ali's case received much acclaim.[3][5] Biography
Nujood Ali was ten when her parents arranged a marriage to Faez Ali Thamer, a man in his thirties. Regularly beaten by her in-laws and raped by her husband, Ali escaped on April 2, 2008, two months after the wedding. On the advice of her father's second wife, she went directly to court to seek a divorce. After waiting for half a day, she was noticed by a judge, Mohammed al-g?adha, who took it upon himself to give her temporary refuge, and who had both her father and husband taken into custody.[6]
Shada Nasser agreed to defend Ali. For the lawyer, it was the continuation of a struggle begun with the installation of her practice in Sana'a, which she opened in the 1990s as the first Yemeni law office headed by a woman. She built her clientele by offering services to female prisoners.[5]
Yemeni law allows girls of any age to wed, but it forbids sex with them until an indefinite time when they are considered "suitable for sexual intercourse." In court, Nasser argued that Ali’s marriage violated the law, since she was raped.[3] Ali rejected the judge's proposal of resuming living with her husband after a break of three to five years.[3] On April 15, 2008,[7] the court granted her a divorce.[3]
After the trial, Ali rejoined her family in a suburb of Sana'a. She returned to school in the fall of 2008 with plans to become a lawyer.[8] Ali's memoirs were published in 2009, and royalties from international sales of the book were intended to pay for her schooling; but she did not attend school regularly.[9] Because of negative world press coverage about Yemen resulting from the case, Ali's passport was confiscated in March 2009 and she was prevented from attending the ceremonies for the Women's World Award in Vienna, Austria. Media reports also questioned whether proceeds from the book were in fact coming to the family.[10]
However, as of 2010, Ali's family was living in a new two-story residence bought with the help of her French publisher and running a grocery store on the ground floor of the building. Ali and her younger sister were attending private school full-time.[9]
The English-language version of the memoir was published in March, 2010. Introducing the work, New York Times op-ed columnist Nicholas Kristof praised the work done to raise awareness regarding such societal problems as terrorism, associated with polygamy and child marriage, saying, "little girls like Nujood may prove more effective than missiles at defeating terrorists."[11] Indeed, publicity surrounding Ali's case is said to have inspired efforts to annul other child marriages, including that of an eight-year-old Saudi girl who was allowed to divorce a middle-aged man in 2009, after her father had forced her to marry him the year before in exchange for about $13,000.[11][12][13][14]
References
1. ^ Daragahi, Borzou (June 11, 2008), Yemeni bride, 10, says I won't, Los Angeles TimesmznfzKLDhjsd'gV, retrieved 16 February 2010
2. ^ a b Walt, Vivienne (3 February 2009), A 10-Year-Old Divorcée Takes Paris, Time/CNN, retrieved 16 February 2010
3. ^ a b c d e Power, Carla (12 August 2009), Nujood Ali & Shada Nasser win "Women of the Year Fund 2008 Glamour Award", Yemen Times, retrieved 16 February 2010
4. ^ Evans, Sean (11 November 2008), 10-year-old girl's inspiring story opens eyes at Glamour awards, New York Daily News, retrieved 9 April 2010
5. ^ a b Madabish, Arafat (28 March 2009), Sanaa's first woman lawyer, Asharq Alawsat: English edition, retrieved 16 February 2010
6. ^ Loving, James (September 5, 2009), Video Beat Part 4 - CNN Explosher= National Radio Text Service, retrieved 16 February 2010. Note: Apart from other details, this website names the judge.
7. ^ Ali 2010, p. 107
8. ^ Mullins, K.J (August 27, 2009), Child bride Nujood Ali's life after the divorce, Digital Journal, retrieved 16 February 2010
9. ^ a b Hersh, Joshua (4 March 2010), A TEN-YEAR-OLD’S DIVORCE LAWYER, The New Yorker, retrieved March 4, 2010.
10. ^ Bobi, Emil (14 March 2009). "Kleine große Frau: profil besuchte die zehnjährige Jemenitin Nojoud Ali in Sanaa [Little big woman: Profil visits the ten-year old Yemeni Ali Nojoud in Sanaa]" (in (German)). Profil (Austrian news magazine). Retrieved April 10, 2010.
11. ^ a b Kristof, Nicholas (3 March 2010), Divorced Before Puberty, New York Times, retrieved 4 March 2010
12. ^ "8-year-old Saudi girl divorces 50-year-old husband". USA Today. 30 April 2009.
13. ^ Saudi child 'files for divorce', BBC News, 24 August 2008, retrieved 7 April 2010
14. ^ Young Saudi girl's marriage ended, BBC News, 30 April 2009, retrieved 7 April 2010
REALITY:
 
Guilt Comes On Organizations That Fail To Clean House Of The Wicked Ones:
 
INTRODUCTION:
 
First, The world we live in is ruled by the wicked one as testified to by 1 John 5:19, “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV). If we pick up a newspaper in any country, we find reports of cruelty and violence on an unprecedented scale. Man’s inhumanity to man is troubling for a righteous person to contemplate as testified to at Ecclesiastes 8:9, “All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.” (AV).
 
Second, Most individuals and/or groups seek to avoid responsibility for their own actions rather than take corrective actions. This also applies to so called religious groups that seek to absolve themselves of responsibility for the wrong actions of members, but fail, willingly, to take action against these wrong doers by purging themselves of these wicked ones.
 
THE REALITY:
 
If a religion fails to clean house of evil and wicked men when they are discovered, and especially of evil and wicked men/women taking the lead in a congregation, and/or congregations such as Pastors, Ministers, Sheiks, Imams, Bishops, Cardinals, Etc., then the religion is responsible for their wrong doing. Some religions such as Islam have never cleaned house of evil and wicked individuals when they are discovered and that religion has been violent since its beginning, and many of its members lust for violence in such acts as beheading of others, suscide bombers, makers of IEDs, etc. do to the teachings of their groups religious leaders. One notable example of an evil and wicked individual Islam well knows of who is a leader of a large group of members of Islam is Sheik Osama bin Ladin. Of course, Islam, is NOT the only religion that fails to take effective action against evil and wicked individuals and leaders of groups among them, another is the Catholic and Angalican churches that for many years just moved pedophiles to a new congregation when they were uncovered as the world's news media has so well identified. Groups seeking to keep themselves clean of evil and wicked individuals that sneak into their group take the appropriate action; to wit, they throw them out.
 
Now many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.
 
Now let’s look at one such religion that tries to escape their responsibility for cleaning house so to speak.
 
ISLAM FAILS TO CLEAN HOUSE:
 
Now of course it is important to recognize that not all Muslims are terrorist and jihadists nor refuse to recognize the property rights of others, it is likewise equally important to recognize that all jihadists are members of Islam. Islam is totally responsible for their actions as they tacitly approve of their evil wrong doing and have never cleaned house of these wicked ones. To wit, by not doing so, they have taken on the responsibility for their wrongful actions upon themselves. Yes, of course they are not the only religion that has failed to clean house; thus taking on the guilt of these wrong doers. Any religion, no exception, which fails to clean house is nothing but an evil false religion. And as previously stated, ‘Now many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.’
 
CONCLUSION:
 
Many are just fooling themself, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions. It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say. People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders. Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope (Pope Innocent III (1160 or 1161 – 16 July 1216)), what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them. Therefore, it is the religion which is at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say. Neither in so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders. Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it. Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.
 
Likewise the failure to clean house of evil ones puts their wrongs directly upon the organization failing to throw out evil/wicked ones when they are found out.” 
 
Whereas Catholic and Anglican religions ex-communicate or throw out the evil ones.
 
[5]  Islam considers terrorism okay as shown they take no action against their members committing it.   A group of this sort should in no way be running any publically supported schools.  In fact 95% of religiously inspired terrorism is my members of Islam.  [source - retrieved The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]
 
Definitely NOT the type of group you want teaching youths.

 

Last edited by Admin (5/27/2014 2:19 pm)

 

5/27/2014 2:25 pm  #2


Re: British Muslim Community

NOW THE REALITY:
 
FIRST, HE NEVER ANSWERS THE TRUTH I POST AS HE HAS NO TRUTH TO ANSWER IT WITH.
 
SECOND, I HAVE CHALLENGED HIM TO FESS UP AND RECOGNIZE HIS ERROR AND BECOME A GENUINE FOLLOWER OF CHRIST, BUT HE WILL NOT ANSWER.
 
THIRD, HE HAS FAILED TO SHOW ME IN ERROR ON A SINGLE THING.  WHY?  BECAUSE I AM POSTING REALITY WITH PROOF FOR WHICH HE HAS NO ANSWER EXCEPT UNTRUTHS AND B.S.; SEE THE FOLLOWING TO SEE THE TRUTH OF WHAT I SAID.
 
Received an email from a member of Islam, Ifitkhar ###########, containing many untruths. One of which was that Americans attacked the World Trade Center and NOT members of Islam which is so absurd and utterly ridiculas, but read my informative answer.
 
FIRST, When this attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon occurred, TV showed Muslims celebrating in Cairo, Alexander, Amman, and many other cities in the Muslim world celebrating, and NOT anyone else.  This clearly shows that although only about 25 individuals did the evil, their co-religionist were in complete agreement with the wicked act – i.e., they were co-conspirators after the fact.  How wicked can a religion get?
 
SEE APPENDIX 1 FOR MORE DETAILS – BELOW:
 
SECOND, This individual’s claim is completely bogus and nothing but a whopping lie.
 
SEE APPENDIX 2 FOR MORE DETAILS – BELOW or go to “Anniversary Attack on America” at  http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=152  for an even more detailed account.
 
THIRD, This evil and unloving crime against humanity is actually called for in the hateful Quran. 
 
SEE APPENDIX 3 FOR MORE DETAILS – BELOW OR go to, http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm 
 
APPENDIX 1:
 
Guilt Comes On Organizations That Fail To Clean House Of The Wicked Ones:
 
INTRODUCTION:
 
First, The world we live in is ruled by the wicked one as testified to by 1 John 5:19, “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV).  If we pick up a newspaper in any country, we find reports of cruelty and violence on an unprecedented scale.  Man’s inhumanity to man is troubling for a righteous person to contemplate as testified to at Ecclesiastes 8:9, “All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.” (AV).
 
Second, Most individuals and/or groups seek to avoid responsibility for their own actions rather than take corrective actions.   This also applies to so called religious groups that seek to absolve themselves of responsibility for the wrong actions of members, but fail, willingly, to take action against these wrong doers by purging themselves of these wicked ones.
 
THE REALITY:
 
If a religion fails to clean house of evil and wicked men when they are discovered, and especially of evil and wicked men/women taking the lead in a congregation, and/or congregations such as Pastors, Ministers, Sheiks, Imams, Bishops, Cardinals, Etc., then the religion is responsible for their wrong doing. Some religions such as Islam have never cleaned house of evil and wicked individuals when they are discovered and that religion has been violent since its beginning, and many of its members lust for violence in such acts as beheading of others, suscide bombers, makers of IEDs, etc. do to the teachings of their groups religious leaders. One notable example of an evil and wicked individual Islam well knows of who is a leader of a large group of members of Islam is Sheik Osama bin Ladin. Of course, Islam, is NOT the only religion that fails to take effective action against evil and wicked individuals and leaders of groups among them, another is the Catholic and Angalican churches that for many years just moved pedophiles to a new congregation when they were uncovered as the world's news media has so well identified. Groups seeking to keep themselves clean of evil and wicked individuals that sneak into their group take the appropriate action; to wit, they throw them out.
 
Now many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.
 
Now let’s look at one such religion that tries to escape their responsibility for cleaning house so to speak.
 
ISLAM FAILS TO CLEAN HOUSE:
 
Now of course it is important to recognize that not all Muslims are terrorist and jihadists nor refuse to recognize the property rights of others, it is likewise equally important to recognize that all jihadists are members of Islam.  Islam is totally responsible for their actions as they tacitly approve of their evil wrong doing and have never cleaned house of these wicked ones.  To wit, by not doing so, they have taken on the responsibility for their wrongful actions upon themselves.  Yes, of course they are not the only religion that has failed to clean house; thus taking on the guilt of these wrong doers.  Any religion, no exception, which fails to clean house is nothing but an evil false religion.  And as previously stated, ‘Now many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.’
 
CONCLUSION:
 
Many are just fooling themself, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions.   It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say.   People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders.   Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope (Pope Innocent III (1160 or 1161 – 16 July 1216)), what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them.   Therefore, it is the religion which is at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say.   Neither in so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders.   Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it.   Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.
 
Likewise the failure to clean house of evil ones puts their wrongs directly upon the organization failing to throw out evil/wicked ones when they are found out.
 
APPENDIX 2:
 
The ISOLATIONIST are pushing nonsense once more. As I said before, “Immigrants are NOT per-say the problem, I myself am an immigrant, but ISOLATIONIST immigrants such as Iftikhar are the problem. Iftihar and is fellow members are the problem as they are ISOLATIONIST, he has just written a long nonsense post trying to justify special advantages to remain ISOLATIONIST at public expense which is pure anti-social nonsense. He and his followers need to integrate into regular society like myself and the Sheiks have. Every religious group could claim they want state funded schools for their group and if implemented we would have literally hundreds of schools to replace a few integrated public schools – this is just anti social nonsense that would result in excessive cost to the state both monetarily and socially and prevent a cohesive society. As I previously told him, “Iftihar you are way out in left field, no one cares whether you drink or do not eat pork – I do not either – but you have NOT integrated with the people around you. Whereas, I have integrated – that in no way implies that you must adopt their bad ways - and have experienced no prejudice. It is high time you wake up to reality. As for your comments on history, they are simply a so what – wake up. I live with the people of the land, instead of isolated communities of my people, and that is what your people should do. Wake up, get real. Your big problem is you can not accept REALITY, and shrug off unpleasant facts when presented. The British Sheiks you should use as an example and start imitating them instead of being ISOLATIONIST.” A good example of this problem is their Prima-Donna superior attitude of wanting state supported schools just for Muslims. You do NOT SEE other religions requesting same. In fact, this is just what the government should not provide as it only makes them more ISOLATIONIST, and this is not what is needed; to wit, integration is what is needed just as the British Sheiks have done.
 
(1) This ISOLATIONIST said the following nonsense. “twin towers wasn't Muslim either - that was the Americans –“ what an outright LIE. 
 
REALITY – ALL THE INDIVIDUALS RESPONSIBLE WERE NOT AMERICAN BUT MEMBERS OF ISLAM, now let’s look at some of the facts:
 
The September 11 attacks were carried out by 19 hijackers, with planning and organization of the attacks involving numerous additional members of al-Qaeda. The first hijackers to arrive in the United States were Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, who settled in the San Diego area in January 2000. They were followed by Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, and Ziad Jarrah, who all arrived early in the summer of 2000, in order to undertake flight training in south Florida. The fourth pilot, Hani Hanjour, arrived in San Diego in December 2000. The other muscle hijackers, who were trained to help overpower and take over the aircraft, all arrived in the spring and early summer of 2001. 
 
Initial selection 
Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were both experienced and respected jihadists in the eyes of al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden. Mihdhar and Hazmi both had previous experience fighting on Bosnia, and had trained during the 1990s at camps in Afghanistan.[1] When Bin Laden committed to the September 11 attacks plot idea, he assigned both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the plot.[2] Both were so eager to participate in operations within the United States, that they obtained visas in April 1999.[3] Once selected, Mihdhar and Hazmi were sent to the Mes Aynak training camp in Afghanistan. In late 1999, Hazmi, Attash and Yemeni went to Karachi, Pakistan to see Mohammed, who instructed them on Western culture and travel; however, Mihdhar did not go to Karachi, instead returning to Yemen.[2] 
 
American Airlines Flight 11 
Main article: American Airlines Flight 11 
Two flight attendants called the American Airlines reservation desk during the hijacking. Betty Ong reported that "the four hijackers had come from first-class seats: 2A, 2B, 9A, and 9B."[4] Flight attendant Amy Sweeney called a flight services manager at Logan Airport and described them as Middle Eastern.[4] She gave the staff the seat numbers and they pulled up the ticket and credit card info of the hijackers, identifying Mohamed Atta al-Sayed.[5] 
Mohamed Atta was heard speaking over the air traffic control system, broadcasting messages he intended for the passengers.[6] 
We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you'll be okay. We are returning to the airport, nobody move. Everything will be okay. If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet.
Nobody move please. We are going back to the airport, don't try to make any stupid moves. 
 
American Airlines Flight 77 
Two hijackers, Hani Hanjour and Majed Moqed were identified by clerks as having bought single, first-class tickets for Flight 77 from Advance Travel Service in Totowa, NJ with $1,842.25 in cash.[4] Renee May, a flight attendant on Flight 77, used a cell phone to call her mother in Las Vegas. She said her flight was being hijacked by six individuals who had moved them to the rear of the plane.[8] Passenger Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, the solicitor general of the United States, stating the flight had been hijacked and the hijackers had knives and box cutters.[9] Two of the passengers had been on the FBI's terrorist-alert list: Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi. 
Forensic remains of the five hijackers were found at the Pentagon, along with remains of the victims.[10] 
 
Now that we have covered 2 of the four planes piloted by Muslims, let’s look at the big picture of all involved, all non-American members of Islam:
 
hijackers in the September 11 attacks 
 
Flight 11 
Mohamed Atta Satam al-Suqami Waleed al-Shehri Wail al-Shehri Abdulaziz al-Omari 
 
Flight 175 
Marwan al-Shehhi Fayez Banihammad Mohand al-Shehri Hamza al-Ghamdi Ahmed al-Ghamdi 
 
Flight 77 
Hani Hanjour Khalid al-Mihdhar Majed Moqed Nawaf al-Hazmi Salem al-Hazmi
 
Flight 93 
Ziad Jarrah Ahmed al-Nami Saeed al-Ghamdi Ahmed al-Haznawi 
 
20th hijacker 
suspects Ramzi Binalshibh Mohamed al-Kahtani Zacarias Moussaoui Mushabib al-Hamlan Zakariya Essabar Ammar al-Baluchi Walid Muhammad Salih Bin 'Attash Khalid al Zahrani 
 
For more details, go to, Today Is The Anniversary Of The Attack On Americahttp://religioustruths.boardhost.com/vie...php?id=152
 
As can be seen this individual is telling untruth once more. Apparently he wants the opportunity of having Muslim teachers teach lies like this – this should absolutely be prevented.
 
CONCLUSION:
 
They want their own schools in the United Kingdom (UK) and other non-Islamic countries so they can indoctrinate their youth to have of others as shown in the article above. Such an organization
 
APPENDIX 3
 
Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?
 
 
Summary Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.  Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding.  Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text.  They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.  
The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways.  Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence.  Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny.  Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.  Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.
 
The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful.   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone.  But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"  The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries.  In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did).  The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse).  The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation.  Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.
 
Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
 
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."  Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.  From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.
 
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
 
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').
 
Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."  The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter.  These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah.  Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.
 
Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
 
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
 
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"  This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.  It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle.  Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption.  (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).
 
Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."  Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?
 
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
 
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"  No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
 
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
 
Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"  Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for  2:193).  The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj.  Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction.  The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did).  Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition.  According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."
 
Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."  
 
Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.  Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
 
Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."
 
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."  According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars).  This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack.  Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months).  The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat.  Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.
 
Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."
 
Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."  The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad".  The context is obviously holy war.
 
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."  "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews.  According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status.  This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years.  Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.
 
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
 
Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."  This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.
 
Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew."  See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"  This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).
 
Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."  Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter.  It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.
 
Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."
 
Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."  How does the Quran define a true believer?
 
Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
 
Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."  Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction."  (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam). 
 
Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion.  The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation.  One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74).  However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude."  He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son.  (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia.  Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)
 
Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
 
Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."   "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context.  It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.
 
Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while.  Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."   This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers.  It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do.  If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.
 
Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord.  Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude.  Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"  Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle.  The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims.  Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."
 
Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"   
 
Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."  Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.'  Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?  This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.
 
Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"  Islam is not about treating everyone equally.  There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.  Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.
 
Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"  Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict.  This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."  (See next verse, below).  Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.
 
Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success."  This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above).  It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.
 
Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."  The root word of "Jihad" is used again here.  The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.
 
From the Hadith:
 
Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
 
Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."  In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy.  This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.
 
Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause.  Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force.  This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today.  
 
Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'
 
Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)
 
Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious
 
Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah
 
Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'.  And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."
 
Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah." [[But there is the true God, Almighty God (YHWH)  which members of Islam Overlook]]
 
Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'." 
 
Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."
 
Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."
 
Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"
 
Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"
 
Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers.  His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."
 
Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war...  When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."
 
Bukhari 1:35  "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)." 
 
Tabari 7:97  The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."  Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam.  Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill.  An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.
 
Tabari 9:69  "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"  The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.
 
Tabari 17:187  "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion."  The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah.  The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.
 
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
 
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.
 
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."  Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.
 
Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship."  One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries.  The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims.  Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.
 
 
Additional Notes: 
Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion.  Where Islam is dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance.  Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim demands are not met.  Either situation seems to provide a justification for religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic fundamentalism.
 
The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran.  Few verses of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood.  Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones.  This is why Muslim apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret the Quran without their "assistance" - even while claiming that it is a perfect book.
 
Far from being mere history or theological construct, the violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and genocide.  This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest.  Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction.  Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent.  Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey.  Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.
 
So ingrained is violence in the religion that Islam has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself. 
 
Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his own.  On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and even butchered captives.  He actually inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not.  Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members were slaughtered. 
 
It is important to emphasize that, for the most part, Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and the religion's most dramatic military conquests were made by the actual companions of Muhammad in the decades following his death.  The early Islamic principle of warfare was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves.  Although modern apologists often claim that Muslims are only supposed to attack in self-defense, this is an oxymoron that is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Islamic historians and others that go back to the time of Muhammad. 
 
Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely obliterated only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina.  Their leader opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army that  was sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids.  The tribe killed no one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the Meccans had been turned back.  Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what Muslim apologists might refer to as "same day marriage"). 
 
One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] inorder to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way."  Elsewhere, he notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life."
 
The widely respected Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."
 
Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession resulted in perpetual internal war following his death.  Those who knew him best first fought to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars').  Then, within the closer community, early Meccan converts battled later ones.  Hostility developed between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar at Medina who had helped them settle in.  Finally there was a violent struggle within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this day. 
 
The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace.  If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be devastating.  Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life.  Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress.  It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed.  It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.
 
This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so dangerous.  They are given the weight of divine command.  While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in their holy book, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of opinion.  Indeed, what do they have?  Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.
 
Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most respected philosophers, understood that"the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other Muslims are either unaware or willfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence.  Their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others.  In the West, it is typical for believers to think that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way.  They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to learn that the evidence of the Quran and the bloody history of Islam are very much in contradiction to this.
 
Others simply accept the violence.  In 1991, a Palestinian couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being too Westernized.  A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their daughter or lose respect." (source).  In 2011, unrepentant Palestinian terrorists, responsible for the brutal murders of civilians, women and children explicitly in the name of Allah were treated to a luxurious "holy pilgrimage" to Mecca by the Saudi king - without a single Muslim voice raised in protest.
 
For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.
 
There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam.
[source - retrieved from   http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm  on  5/23/2014]
 
NOTE: I challenge anyone to show any factual errors in what I said.

 

5/27/2014 2:28 pm  #3


Re: British Muslim Community

BRUTAL REALITY – ISLAM WILL NOT GIVE OTHERS FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND HUMAN RIGHTS – READ REALITY
 
INTRODUCTION TO REALITY:
 
Genuine true followers of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ believe in and practice – do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
 
Whereas, Islam believe in and practice – do onto others as you would NOT want them to do unto you.
 
WICKED WAY EVEN WRITTEN INTO THE QURAN AT MANY PLACES:
 
From an encyclopedia giving many versions of the evil Quran on the subject at Sura 9:29.   “The consensus opinion of Muslim scholars justifies the imposition of tribute on non-Muslims who fall under the Muslim rule in terms of the verse 9:29 of the Qur'an.[1] This verse has been thus an important source of the Islamic laws on dhimmis.
Different translations of the verse read as:[2]
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
 
MUHSIN KHAN: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
 
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
 
YUSUF ALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
 
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
 
DR. GHALI: Fight the ones who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day, and do not prohibit whatever Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, and do not practice (Literally: to have as a religion) the religion of Truth-from among the ones to whom the Book was brought-until they give the tax out of hand (i.e., by a ready money payment, or in token of submission) and have been belittled..  [source - retrieved from   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba_29   on  5/16/2014]
 
This is but one salient example of evil and wicked things against others found in the evil Quran.
 
 
ONE EXAMPLE OF 1,000 TH. OF DO ONTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD NOT WANT THEM TO DO ONTO YOU BY ISLAM:
 
By MOHAMMED SAEED and HAMZA HENDAWI1 hour ago [Associated Press]
 
KHARTOUM, Sudan (AP) — A pregnant Sudanese woman who married a Christian man was sentenced to death Thursday after she refused to recant her Christian faith, her lawyer said.
Meriam Ibrahim, whose father was Muslim but mother was an Orthodox Christian from Ethiopia, was convicted of "apostasy" on Sunday and given four days to repent and escape death, said lawyer Al-Shareef Ali al-Shareef Mohammed.
The 26 year old, who is eight months pregnant, was sentenced after that grace period expired, Mohammed said.
Amnesty International immediately condemned the sentence, calling it "abhorrent." The U.S. State Department said it was "deeply disturbed" by the sentencing and called on the government to respect the right to freedom of religion.
Mohammed, the lawyer, called the conviction rushed and legally flawed since the judge refused to hear key defense witnesses and ignored constitutional provisions on freedom of worship and equality among citizens.
Ibrahim and Wani married in a formal church ceremony in 2011 and have a son, 18-month-old Martin, who is with her in jail. The couple runs several businesses, including a farm, south of Khartoum.
Sudan's penal code criminalizes the conversion of Muslims into other religions, which is punishable by death.
As in many Muslim nations, Muslim women in Sudan are prohibited from marrying non-Muslims, though Muslim men can marry outside their faith. By law, children must follow their father's religion.
Sudan introduced Islamic Shariah laws in the early 1980s under the rule of autocrat Jaafar Nimeiri, a move that contributed to the resumption of an insurgency in the mostly animist and Christian south of Sudan. An earlier round of civil war lasted 17 years and ended in 1972. The south seceded in 2011 to become the world's newest nation, South Sudan.
Sudanese President Omar Bashir, an Islamist who seized power in a 1989 military coup, says his country will implement Islam more strictly now that the non-Muslim south is gone.
A number of Sudanese have been convicted of apostasy in recent years, but they all escaped execution by recanting their new faith. Religious thinker and politician Mahmoud Mohammed Taha, a critic of Nimeiri and his interpretation of Shariah, was sentenced to death after his conviction of apostasy. He was executed in 1985 at the age of 76.
Mohammed said he intends to appeal Ibrahim's conviction.
"The judge has exceeded his mandate when he ruled that Meriam's marriage was void because her husband was out of her faith," Mohammed told The Associated Press. "He was thinking more of Islamic Shariah laws than of the country's laws and its constitution."
He said Ibrahim's Muslim father left her mother when she was a child and her mother raised her as a Christian.
The court in the capital, Khartoum, also ordered that Ibrahim be given 100 lashes for having what it considers sexual relations with her husband, Daniel Wani, a Christian from southern Sudan who has U.S. citizenship, according to the lawyer and judicial officials who spoke on condition of anonymity in line with regulations. Wani was acquitted of a charge of harboring an apostate, according to another defense lawyer, Eman Abdul-Rahim.
Wani fled to the United States as a child to escape the civil war in southern Sudan but later returned, she said.
Amnesty called the sentence a "flagrant breach of international human rights law."
"The fact that a woman could be sentenced to death for her religious choice, and to flogging for being married to a man of an allegedly different religion, is abhorrent and should never be even considered," Amnesty said in a statement, quoting its Sudan researcher, Manar Idriss.
Ibrahim's case first came to the attention of authorities in August, when members of her father's family complained that she was born a Muslim but married a Christian man.
They claimed that her birth name was "Afdal" and that she changed it to Meriam. Mohammed said the document produced by relatives to show she was given a Muslim name at birth was a fake. Ibrahim refused to answer Judge Abbas Khalifa when he called her "Afdal" during Thursday's hearing. Meriam is a common name for Muslims and Christians alike.
"I was never a Muslim. I was raised a Christian from the start," she said.
Authorities first charged her with having illegitimate sex last year but she remained free pending trial. She was charged with apostasy and jailed in February after she declared in court that Christianity was the only religion she knew. [source - retrieved from http://news.yahoo.com/sudanese-woman-sentenced-death-apostasy-123904046.html on 5/15/2014]
 
MEMBERS OF ISLAM RAIL AGAINST SLIGHT AND/OR PRECEIVED WRONGS AGAINST THEM IN NON-MUSLIM LANDS:
 
They feel they are superior to others even though they are immigrants in the United Kingdom (UK) and want government funded public schools just for them; whereas, Methodist, Quakers, etc. have never requested such special privilages.  Of course this is just what they should not have as they should integrate into society.
 
As I have said before, “Immigrants are NOT per-say the problem, I myself am an immigrant, but ISOLATIONIST immigrants are the problem.  ####### and is fellow members are the problem as they are ISOLATIONIST, he has just written many long nonsense post trying to justify special advantages to remain ISOLATIONIST at public expense which is pure anti-social nonsense.  He and his followers need to integrate into regular society like myself and the Sheiks have.  Every religious group could claim they want state funded schools for their group and if implemented we would have literally hundreds of schools to replace a few integrated public schools – this is just anti social nonsense that would result in excessive cost to the state both monetarily and socially and prevent a cohesive society.   As I previously told him, “####### you are way out in left field, no one cares whether you drink or do not eat pork – I do not either – but you have NOT integrated with the people around you.   Whereas, I have integrated – that in no way implies that you must adopt their bad ways - and have experienced no prejudice.   It is high time you wake up to reality.  As for your comments on history, they are simply a so what – wake up.   I live with the people of the land, instead of isolated communities of my people, and that is what your people should do.   Wake up, get real.   Your big problem is you can not accept REALITY, and shrug off unpleasant facts when presented.   The British Sheiks you should use as an example and start imitating them instead of being ISOLATIONIST.”  A good example of this problem is Muslim’s Prima-Donna superior attitude of wanting state supported schools just for Muslims.  You do NOT SEE other religions requesting same.  In fact, this is just what the government should not provide as it only makes them more ISOLATIONIST, and this is not what is needed; to wit, integration is what is needed just as the British Sheiks have done.
 
THEY CLAIM TO PAY TAXES, BUT FAIL TO MENTION THEY COST SOCIETY MUCH MORE THAN THEY PAY IN:
 
All the expenses borne by the U.K. due to Islam such as security, soldiers murdered on streets in U.K. by them, NATO expenses made necessary by them, expenses and deaths due to bombed out underground trains, buses, and human bombs, and other wrongs by them far out weigh what ever taxes they pay in to the U.K.
 
REAL SOLUTION TO GIVE WORLD RELIEF AND PEACE FROM ISLAM’S WICKED ACTS:
 
Dissolve Islam and give the world a measure of greater peace and less stress.
 
For details on Dissolving Islam, go to,
 
http://religioustruthsbyiris.freeforums.org/dissolve-islam-and-give-the-world-some-needed-peace-t193.html 
 
NOW TO KNOW THE TRUTH, GO TO:
 
1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/
 
2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/
 
3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/
 
4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/
 
5) http://religious-truths.forums.com/
 
6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/
 
7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/
 
To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,  http://religious-truths.forums.com/default/digital-book-on-18-part-follow-christ-bible-study-3?replies=6#post-1421
 
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 
Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to www.jw.org! 

 

5/27/2014 2:30 pm  #4


Re: British Muslim Community

hI Everyone He posted a second bunch of the same B.S. which I shall remove as it is basically a duplicate of his first post.

 

5/28/2014 2:47 pm  #5


Re: British Muslim Community

Hi Everyone Iftikhar Ahmad loves to keep posting similar B.S., and I keep answering.   But I will NOT permit him to start one forum after the other for this the evil purpose of misleading others.  Here is his latest B.S., and my comments at the end. Trojan Horse Tahir Alam is allegedly the man behind a blueprint for the ‘Trojan Horse’ plot for the radical ‘Islamisation’ of secular state schools. An alleged plot to takeover some of Britain’s schools by Islamist extremists has been reportedly masterminded by a ringleader who had drafted a guide document on the process, a media report has said. Tahir Alam, chairman of governors at Park View school in Birmingham, is allegedly the man behind a blueprint for the so-called “Trojan Horse” plot for the radical “Islamisation” of secular state schools. He called for “girls [to] be covered except for their hands and faces”, advocated gender segregation in some school activities, and attacked a “multicultural approach” to collective worship, the Sunday Telegraph' reported. In his 72-page document, published by the Muslim Council of Britain in 2007, Tahir Alam and co-author Muhammad Abdul Bari categorically attacked many state schools for not being “receptive of legitimate and reasonable requests made by some Muslim parents and pupils in relation to their faith-based aspirations and concerns”. They described how Muslim governors could be activated to press the “views and aspirations of Muslim parents and the local community” on reluctant schools. Birmingham has a large Muslim population, nearly 22 per cent, according to the 2011 census. The “Trojan Horse” plot had come to light recently and involves the alleged takeover of secular state schools and the removal of secular head teachers in Birmingham by radical Muslim staff and governors. There are more Methodist schools than Muslim schools in England and 33% of English state schools are Christian. There’s been a big kerfuffle over a supposed Muslim influence on six schools in Birmingham, with outlets like the BBC and Telegraph alleging a “Trojan horse” takeover by Muslim parents. But whether you agree with religion in schools or not, [b]the faith that is most clearly represented in Britain’s education system is Christianity.There are more Methodist schools (26 or 0.13%) than Muslim schools in England. Out of the total number of state-funded schools (primary and secondary) in England this is what percentage were Muslim in 2012. Some 0.06% or 12 schools are Muslim faith schools.  Out of all UK state-funded schools, 33.61% or 6751 schools are Christian. School segregation: 12% of state schools are split into boys and girls. Charges against the six schools in Birmingham include not teaching the curriculum, inviting radical speakers to talk to the children and gender segregating classrooms – to the detriment of girls. A small, but significant number of traditional British schools are split by gender too. The man accused of being at the centre of the plot, Faisal Khan, has denied the allegations, saying his sole motive was to improve the standards at schools and that he had no wish to “Islamize” British schools. British authorities are now investigating the alleged plot. UK Education Secretary Michael Gove appointed Peter Clarke, former head of Scotland Yard’s Counter Terrorism Command, to lead the probe. The appointment of Clarke has faced criticism, with critics saying the move has resulted in rising fears over a possible government crackdown on Muslim communities in the UK. There are concerns that the plan could prevent ordinary Muslims from getting involved in their children’s schooling affairs for fear of being branded extremist. “The idea that MCB document was a Communist or Trotskyite-type plot to takeover all Birmingham/UK schools is laughable. This feeds into a wider 'counter-jihadist' (Breivik, EDL, etc) narrative that Muslims want to "take over". To describe the handbook as 'a document on manipulating teachers and curriculum' or 'a detailed blueprint for the radical "Islamisation" of secular state schools', as Sunday Telegraph says, is an insult to the many thousands of professionals and lay people who have been involved over the last ten years in the massive improvements in the educational achievement of young Muslim people. There is a level of hysteria building which is not justified, we need to take the temperature down and politicians must not play with these issues or else face a potential backlash, possibly in community cohesion." Abdul BariThe whole saga is outrageous, beyond belief and frankly if it was not so serious, it would be comical. The documents on which this whole action is perused is false and as there is no proof of extremism in schools, Mr Gove has made it illegal for Muslims to have conservative views (coming from a minister of conservative government, its comical really). Feel like we are back in the fifties in the USA again. Michael Gove is an avowed Zionist which is not the best way to approach issues like this! Because it can lead greater attacks on Islam. It amazes me that on the basis of an anonymous letter the whole country has been lead to believe that there is an organised plot to somehow take over schools, now allegedly across the length and breadth of Britain! Furthermore the amount of coverage that this has received from the media as being a credible story, to me, suggests the level of Islamophobia in our society has reached alarming and dangerous heights. I would suggest that for the sake of fairness, equality and justice all schools are subject to the same level of scrutiny. For example Christian, C-of-E, Jewish and Hindu, Sikh schools. I believe that this not only a witch hunt but a move to tarnish and undermine the credibility of Muslims in general and the noble teachings of a widely practiced and rapidly growing religion which a people devotedly choose to follow. Islamophobia should be stopped - especially when the racist is a government minister or department. you must share this island with many people, why does it belong to one people? Grammar schools regularly carry out gender segregation, shall we remove those Head teachers too.    The horse in question, it is alleged, contained Muslim extremism – brought to state schools by stealth, by governor bodies launching subtle pincer movements, to remove the kind of pesky teachers who might object to the segregation of pupils by sex, or a refusal to stick to the syllabus. How incredibly extremist. Schools where segregation of pupils by sex occur. How different from boy's only Grammar schools and High schools for Girls that exist in predominately Conservative areas. And that exist predominately in the private school sector. It does though surely produce better exam results, as pupils are less influenced by the idea of 'girl's subjects' and 'boy's subjects', and are less likely to be distracted by sex. Allegations of an Islamic takeover plot of Birmingham schools are just the latest in a string of slurs against Muslims. It is not clear what is meant by an "Islamic plot takeover", and whether that is the same thing as saying or hinting that some Muslims might want to get some schools to adopt their particular version of Islamic religious values, behaviours and life-styles. If it is the latter, that would not necessarily be an indication of "terrorism", so I struggle to see the need for 'counter-terrorism' input. It is not terrorism in any way shape or form. It is important to remember this is not about Islam as such but yet another chance to bash people perceived as foreigners. To many Muslim is another word for immigrant and coloured person, two terrible bugbears. Why should an unnamed, undated, unspecific source has effected students, teachers, governors, parents in one swoop. It has serious implications on unfounded accusations for hundreds of people. In no way shape or form is this right, nor should have it EVER happened. Just by a anonymous letter how can you judge the schools and it is bringing such bad vibe to Birmingham schools and local Muslim community we feel like we're targets no matter how hard we try we will never please and move forward from the terrorist labelling. I am disgusted at the way these particular schools and governors were targeted for no reason other than being Muslim. No solid evidence wa available to substantiate these accusations which arose and yet such great weight and focus was attached to them. Morally unjust and utterly unacceptable. The Trojan Horse document was clearly written by someone who knows little about Birmingham and even less about Islam. It has chimed, however, with widespread Islamophobic fantasies and fears amongst non-Muslims, and as a result of unethical reporting in the media has done much damage.  On the one hand we get told we are not integrating enough and we should engage more in civic society. On the other, when we do, we get accused of having sinister agendas. Since when do concerns by religiously conservative parents about teaching on homosexuality, girls and boys mixing, and the reciting of prayers, require anti-terrorist experts to get involved? Allegations of an Islamic takeover plot in Birmingham schools aren't justified by the evidence – and the government response is way out of proportion. Perhaps its best to let the Muslim community sort these issues out. These are in effect Muslim schools now. It is up to the Muslim community to see off hard liners (if there are any) otherwise it is their own children's' education that will suffer. I think it would be very difficult for non Muslims to get involved either as governors or management so perhaps that it is one of the reasons for the conflicts that have arisen. It may be best for the Government to but out providing the record of the school is O.K. from an exam point of view. I am so disgusted that even after it was proved there is no factual evidence or basis for that racist and hate filled document, schools in Birmingham are being subjected to this horrific ordeal and the name of many good reputable teachers is being tarnished... Why? Clearly viewable that this accusation has been purposely placed on these schools which surprisingly consists of majority Muslim children. Clearly the school policies are being contradicted by Mr Gove as they clearly state that it is the schools priority and job to meet the needs of the local community and of the students within the school. So if a school is doing that then what is the issue? What is happening feels like the persecution of a religious group. This is important because the wit hunt feeds Islamophobia. As we can see from the bombings and arson attacks on mosques in the UK, Islamophobia is a very dangerous and divisive form of racism. I'm sick of this hatred of Islam and Muslims. Haters, ignorant scum, look for any means to target Muslims, now even in our schools. It's a joke and this has to stop. How hypocritical does a country have to be to illegally invade Muslim countries and then accuse Muslims of terrorism? I am a Muslim. I am an anti-terrorist.   I never realised how racist and anti-Islamic this country is until I moved here. These people are here legally and have the right to live how they want to. Just because there are terrorists who use Islam as a doctrine to justify their hateful acts, does NOT mean that every Islam wants to change Britain to Sharia Law, kill the gays and put all women in burkas! These people are being judged and punished for the actions of others that have nothing to do with them, simply because they are of the same religion. Do you judge Germans in the same way because their country committed genocide? Or the Irish if they are from an area where religious conflict was particularly violent? No. Seems like thinly veiled racism to me, not the 'staunch upholding of British rights against religious extremists' as you all seem to espouse. What do people mean when they talk about 'multiculturalism'? If a lot of people come from a foreign country and settle in a particular area they will bring the culture of that country with them. Of course they will want their schools to promote their values. Gender segregation is everywhere in the Muslim world including in EU applicant, Turkey, so either we believe in Britain as multicultural or we don't. You don't get to pick and choose the bits you want. Why not sit down with parents and listen to their concerns, instead of ordering an investigation? Shocked at this terrifying witch hunt against Muslims who are simply trying to raise standards. Its totally unacceptable to create a furore in the country over anonymous accusations with no proof. Because it is a divisive move and will affect community relations. This is the very reason why society does not function properly, this is a deliberate attempt to spread fear amongst communities, as the best way to control a nation is through fear itself. because this is NOT ,,I repeat is NOT an Islamic plot to take over Birmingham, so DO NOT put false information in the media to put Muslims down!!!!! What next.....Muslims taking over hospitals, banks, pubs....come on... Tomorrow, a Pakistani MP would become the PM of GB and this does not mean that the country has become a colony of Pakistan.   What's taking place is an absolute disgrace. This whole witch hunt is putting Muslims off from becoming governors at a time when it is need the most. Why should Muslim parents be targeted when all they want at the end of the day is a good all round education for their children. Before Muslims governors came on to the scene all the inner city schools were doing poorly and failing all the children of the school. Muslim parents were criticised for their lack of involvement in their children's schools. Now they are being vilified. It is an absolute disgrace that an ex anti terrorist police office has been brought in to investigate the situation. It stinks of racism and the desire to label all Muslims into the category of extremist and jihadist. What a disgrace by the national and the local government. It's wrong for Gove to be deliberately politicising our Education system. All our children deserve respect and not to be scapegoated. What a total waste of tax payers money and tactical manoeuvre by Michael Gove to divert attention away from the real issues. Gove’s war is designed to destabilise governing bodies where Muslims form a majority. Don't want us to be part of 'big society'?  We totally reject the idea that there is Muslim plot to take over Birmingham schools. We abhor the scapegoating of the Muslim community being whipped up by the media. We call for the removal of Peter Clarke as we believe this is a provocative appointment, designed to divide our community. I don't believe that there is an Islamic Plot to take over Birmingham schools. It's a set-up. Anonymous complaints have been used in the past to hound good head teachers of community schools out of their jobs in order to facilitate the creation of academies. This whole story smells of falsification and corruption. I suspect that the people wishing to take over schools are not Islamic extremists, but Academy Chains with business interests. A shamefully irresponsible and sensationalised inquiry whose adverse impact on community relations locally and nationally will sadly be lingering long and far. If British authorities are so concerned about their education institutions being infiltrated by ``extremists'' then I suggest they stop Tony Blair, architect in chief of the illegal and violent 2003 Iraq invasion from speaking at colleges and universities across the UK and the world. His lies and fabrications caused the deaths, directly and indirectly, of thousands of Iraqis, British and Americans. While the survivors of his wars suffer in silence, this former British Prime Minister makes millions through his speaking engagements at educational institutions across the world with little or no sign of remorse for the suffering he caused. Nothing I see in the above articles suggests the British Muslim educators in question did anything illegal, let alone anywhere as remotely destructive as the twice elected British Prime Minister. Britain's interests would be served better if they questioned their own domestic and overseas policies instead of perennially whining on about ``extremist'' from their (mostly) law abiding immigrant communities. There are a total of 21300 Primary and 3900 Secondary schools in the UK. Finding that 6 out of these 25200 had board members who wanted to push their extremist views over the governance of those school is not a Islamic Plot or Trojan Horse to Islamises UK. This is a massive overreaction and the Islamophobia on display in the comments is more terrifying than the actual case itself. Stop the racist witch hunt in Birmingham schools. We Muslims have a right to our religion. I decry everything which denigrates Muslims in this country. The media and governmental attitudes and actions, inflame prejudice and ignorance. We want the best for our children and such baseless witch hunt of school governors does not help the cause of better education.  Stop this hate against Muslims. It is not them who are terrorists , but all those who imply they are with the help of media you try bringing others to your side giving false details - twin towers wasn't Muslim either - that was the Americans - you will not win as Islam Will forever grow and prove it is peaceful through the will of God (Allah SWT)... amen. This is undermining confidence in the Muslim community and increasing Islamophobia. This is another example of the media whipping up hysteria against the UK Muslim community.  The way our Govt treating British Muslims is as if all Muslims are terrorists unless they prove otherwise. Govt should focus on its job. Governors of this school worked hard to help a failing school achieve outstanding rating from Ofsted. Please fix Ofsted and stop demonising Muslims. Nick Clegg on LBC radio indicated that the DFE is full of right wing ideologues and extremist loons. Islamic schools protect Muslim children from the onslaught of Euro centrism, homosexuality, racism, and secular traditions. All education systems appear to be indoctrination systems. I went to a good private school. Guess how we were 'encouraged' to think about politics! Having a Muslim name in UK is a crime. All UK job application forms have sections ask your race and religions. Most UK employers simply reject your applications just by looking at this section. Native Brits must learn to respect and tolerate those who are different. The needs and demands of the Muslim community are different from those of natives. Muslims are in Britain not to give up their cultural heritage. They must integrate in their new home country, learn new languages and apply for political representation -- without forgetting their cultural heritage. It is important to learn Standard English, but their  languages should not be neglected. They need Masajid and grave yards. Muslim children not only need halal meat or Eid Holidays but they need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their development period also. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. The whole world belongs to Muslims. He/she must learn and be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, he/she must learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural heritage and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. For a Muslim English is an economic language and Arabic is a religious while Urdu and other community languages are their social and emotional languages.Muslim children not only need halal meat or Eid Holidays but they need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their development period also. There are hundreds of state primary and secondary schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be opted out to become Muslim Academies. This means the Muslim children will get a decent education. Muslim schools turned out balanced citizens, more tolerant of others and less likely to succumb to criminality or extremism. Muslim schools give young people confidence in who they are and an understanding of Islamic teaching of tolerance and respect which prepares them for a positive and fulfilling role in society. Muslim schools are attractive to Muslim parents because they have better discipline and teaching Islamic values. Children like discipline, structure and boundaries. Bilingual Muslim children need Bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods, who understand their needs and demands. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. Legally, the state has an obligation to respect the rights of parents to ensure that 'education and teaching(of their children) is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions.' The schools must satisfy the spiritual, moral, social, and cultural needs of Muslim pupils. State schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers are not in a position to satisfy their needs. A good school is not just a knowledge factory or a conveyor belt for churning out exam passes - it is a community, a family. A community is held together by common values and principles.Iftikhar Ahmad63 Margery Park Road London E7 9LDLondon School of Islamics TrustTrojan Horse Tahir Alam is allegedly the man behind a blueprint for the ‘Trojan Horse’ plot for the radical ‘Islamisation’ of secular state schools. An alleged plot to takeover some of Britain’s schools by Islamist extremists has been reportedly masterminded by a ringleader who had drafted a guide document on the process, a media report has said. Tahir Alam, chairman of governors at Park View school in Birmingham, is allegedly the man behind a blueprint for the so-called “Trojan Horse” plot for the radical “Islamisation” of secular state schools. He called for “girls [to] be covered except for their hands and faces”, advocated gender segregation in some school activities, and attacked a “multicultural approach” to collective worship, the Sunday Telegraph' reported. In his 72-page document, published by the Muslim Council of Britain in 2007, Tahir Alam and co-author Muhammad Abdul Bari categorically attacked many state schools for not being “receptive of legitimate and reasonable requests made by some Muslim parents and pupils in relation to their faith-based aspirations and concerns”. They described how Muslim governors could be activated to press the “views and aspirations of Muslim parents and the local community” on reluctant schools. Birmingham has a large Muslim population, nearly 22 per cent, according to the 2011 census. The “Trojan Horse” plot had come to light recently and involves the alleged takeover of secular state schools and the removal of secular head teachers in Birmingham by radical Muslim staff and governors. There are more Methodist schools than Muslim schools in England and 33% of English state schools are Christian. There’s been a big kerfuffle over a supposed Muslim influence on six schools in Birmingham, with outlets like the BBC and Telegraph alleging a “Trojan horse” takeover by Muslim parents. But whether you agree with religion in schools or not, the faith that is most clearly represented in Britain’s education system is ChristianityThere are more Methodist schools (26 or 0.13%) than Muslim schools in England. Out of the total number of state-funded schools (primary and secondary) in England this is what percentage were Muslim in 2012. Some 0.06% or 12 schools are Muslim faith schools.  Out of all UK state-funded schools, 33.61% or 6751 schools are Christian. School segregation: 12% of state schools are split into boys and girls. Charges against the six schools in Birmingham include not teaching the curriculum, inviting radical speakers to talk to the children and gender segregating classrooms – to the detriment of girls. A small, but significant number of traditional British schools are split by gender too. The man accused of being at the centre of the plot, Faisal Khan, has denied the allegations, saying his sole motive was to improve the standards at schools and that he had no wish to “Islamize” British schools. British authorities are now investigating the alleged plot. UK Education Secretary Michael Gove appointed Peter Clarke, former head of Scotland Yard’s Counter Terrorism Command, to lead the probe. The appointment of Clarke has faced criticism, with critics saying the move has resulted in rising fears over a possible government crackdown on Muslim communities in the UK. There are concerns that the plan could prevent ordinary Muslims from getting involved in their children’s schooling affairs for fear of being branded extremist. “The idea that MCB document was a Communist or Trotskyite-type plot to takeover all Birmingham/UK schools is laughable. This feeds into a wider 'counter-jihadist' (Breivik, EDL, etc) narrative that Muslims want to "take over". To describe the handbook as 'a document on manipulating teachers and curriculum' or 'a detailed blueprint for the radical "Islamisation" of secular state schools', as Sunday Telegraph says, is an insult to the many thousands of professionals and lay people who have been involved over the last ten years in the massive improvements in the educational achievement of young Muslim people. There is a level of hysteria building which is not justified, we need to take the temperature down and politicians must not play with these issues or else face a potential backlash, possibly in community cohesion." Abdul BariThe whole saga is outrageous, beyond belief and frankly if it was not so serious, it would be comical. The documents on which this whole action is perused is false and as there is no proof of extremism in schools, Mr Gove has made it illegal for Muslims to have conservative views (coming from a minister of conservative government, its comical really). Feel like we are back in the fifties in the USA again. Michael Gove is an avowed Zionist which is not the best way to approach issues like this! Because it can lead greater attacks on Islam. It amazes me that on the basis of an anonymous letter the whole country has been lead to believe that there is an organised plot to somehow take over schools, now allegedly across the length and breadth of Britain! Furthermore the amount of coverage that this has received from the media as being a credible story, to me, suggests the level of Islamophobia in our society has reached alarming and dangerous heights. I would suggest that for the sake of fairness, equality and justice all schools are subject to the same level of scrutiny. For example Christian, C-of-E, Jewish and Hindu, Sikh schools. I believe that this not only a witch hunt but a move to tarnish and undermine the credibility of Muslims in general and the noble teachings of a widely practiced and rapidly growing religion which a people devotedly choose to follow. Islamophobia should be stopped - especially when the racist is a government minister or department. you must share this island with many people, why does it belong to one people? Grammar schools regularly carry out gender segregation, shall we remove those Head teachers too.    The horse in question, it is alleged, contained Muslim extremism – brought to state schools by stealth, by governor bodies launching subtle pincer movements, to remove the kind of pesky teachers who might object to the segregation of pupils by sex, or a refusal to stick to the syllabus. How incredibly extremist. Schools where segregation of pupils by sex occur. How different from boy's only Grammar schools and High schools for Girls that exist in predominately Conservative areas. And that exist predominately in the private school sector. It does though surely produce better exam results, as pupils are less influenced by the idea of 'girl's subjects' and 'boy's subjects', and are less likely to be distracted by sex. Allegations of an Islamic takeover plot of Birmingham schools are just the latest in a string of slurs against Muslims. It is not clear what is meant by an "Islamic plot takeover", and whether that is the same thing as saying or hinting that some Muslims might want to get some schools to adopt their particular version of Islamic religious values, behaviours and life-styles. If it is the latter, that would not necessarily be an indication of "terrorism", so I struggle to see the need for 'counter-terrorism' input. It is not terrorism in any way shape or form. It is important to remember this is not about Islam as such but yet another chance to bash people perceived as foreigners. To many Muslim is another word for immigrant and coloured person, two terrible bugbears. Why should an unnamed, undated, unspecific source has effected students, teachers, governors, parents in one swoop. It has serious implications on unfounded accusations for hundreds of people. In no way shape or form is this right, nor should have it EVER happened. Just by a anonymous letter how can you judge the schools and it is bringing such bad vibe to Birmingham schools and local Muslim community we feel like we're targets no matter how hard we try we will never please and move forward from the terrorist labelling. I am disgusted at the way these particular schools and governors were targeted for no reason other than being Muslim. No solid evidence wa available to substantiate these accusations which arose and yet such great weight and focus was attached to them. Morally unjust and utterly unacceptable. The Trojan Horse document was clearly written by someone who knows little about Birmingham and even less about Islam. It has chimed, however, with widespread Islamophobic fantasies and fears amongst non-Muslims, and as a result of unethical reporting in the media has done much damage.  On the one hand we get told we are not integrating enough and we should engage more in civic society. On the other, when we do, we get accused of having sinister agendas. Since when do concerns by religiously conservative parents about teaching on homosexuality, girls and boys mixing, and the reciting of prayers, require anti-terrorist experts to get involved? Allegations of an Islamic takeover plot in Birmingham schools aren't justified by the evidence – and the government response is way out of proportion. Perhaps its best to let the Muslim community sort these issues out. These are in effect Muslim schools now. It is up to the Muslim community to see off hard liners (if there are any) otherwise it is their own children's' education that will suffer. I think it would be very difficult for non Muslims to get involved either as governors or management so perhaps that it is one of the reasons for the conflicts that have arisen. It may be best for the Government to but out providing the record of the school is O.K. from an exam point of view. I am so disgusted that even after it was proved there is no factual evidence or basis for that racist and hate filled document, schools in Birmingham are being subjected to this horrific ordeal and the name of many good reputable teachers is being tarnished... Why? Clearly viewable that this accusation has been purposely placed on these schools which surprisingly consists of majority Muslim children. Clearly the school policies are being contradicted by Mr Gove as they clearly state that it is the schools priority and job to meet the needs of the local community and of the students within the school. So if a school is doing that then what is the issue? What is happening feels like the persecution of a religious group. This is important because the wit hunt feeds Islamophobia. As we can see from the bombings and arson attacks on mosques in the UK, Islamophobia is a very dangerous and divisive form of racism. I'm sick of this hatred of Islam and Muslims. Haters, ignorant scum, look for any means to target Muslims, now even in our schools. It's a joke and this has to stop. How hypocritical does a country have to be to illegally invade Muslim countries and then accuse Muslims of terrorism? I am a Muslim. I am an anti-terrorist.   I never realised how racist and anti-Islamic this country is until I moved here. These people are here legally and have the right to live how they want to. Just because there are terrorists who use Islam as a doctrine to justify their hateful acts, does NOT mean that every Islam wants to change Britain to Sharia Law, kill the gays and put all women in burkas! These people are being judged and punished for the actions of others that have nothing to do with them, simply because they are of the same religion. Do you judge Germans in the same way because their country committed genocide? Or the Irish if they are from an area where religious conflict was particularly violent? No. Seems like thinly veiled racism to me, not the 'staunch upholding of British rights against religious extremists' as you all seem to espouse. What do people mean when they talk about 'multiculturalism'? If a lot of people come from a foreign country and settle in a particular area they will bring the culture of that country with them. Of course they will want their schools to promote their values. Gender segregation is everywhere in the Muslim world including in EU applicant, Turkey, so either we believe in Britain as multicultural or we don't. You don't get to pick and choose the bits you want. Why not sit down with parents and listen to their concerns, instead of ordering an investigation? Shocked at this terrifying witch hunt against Muslims who are simply trying to raise standards. Its totally unacceptable to create a furore in the country over anonymous accusations with no proof. Because it is a divisive move and will affect community relations. This is the very reason why society does not function properly, this is a deliberate attempt to spread fear amongst communities, as the best way to control a nation is through fear itself. because this is NOT ,,I repeat is NOT an Islamic plot to take over Birmingham, so DO NOT put false information in the media to put Muslims down!!!!! What next.....Muslims taking over hospitals, banks, pubs....come on... Tomorrow, a Pakistani MP would become the PM of GB and this does not mean that the country has become a colony of Pakistan.   What's taking place is an absolute disgrace. This whole witch hunt is putting Muslims off from becoming governors at a time when it is need the most. Why should Muslim parents be targeted when all they want at the end of the day is a good all round education for their children. Before Muslims governors came on to the scene all the inner city schools were doing poorly and failing all the children of the school. Muslim parents were criticised for their lack of involvement in their children's schools. Now they are being vilified. It is an absolute disgrace that an ex anti terrorist police office has been brought in to investigate the situation. It stinks of racism and the desire to label all Muslims into the category of extremist and jihadist. What a disgrace by the national and the local government. It's wrong for Gove to be deliberately politicising our Education system. All our children deserve respect and not to be scapegoated. What a total waste of tax payers money and tactical manoeuvre by Michael Gove to divert attention away from the real issues. Gove’s war is designed to destabilise governing bodies where Muslims form a majority. Don't want us to be part of 'big society'?  We totally reject the idea that there is Muslim plot to take over Birmingham schools. We abhor the scapegoating of the Muslim community being whipped up by the media. We call for the removal of Peter Clarke as we believe this is a provocative appointment, designed to divide our community. I don't believe that there is an Islamic Plot to take over Birmingham schools. It's a set-up. Anonymous complaints have been used in the past to hound good head teachers of community schools out of their jobs in order to facilitate the creation of academies. This whole story smells of falsification and corruption. I suspect that the people wishing to take over schools are not Islamic extremists, but Academy Chains with business interests. A shamefully irresponsible and sensationalised inquiry whose adverse impact on community relations locally and nationally will sadly be lingering long and far. If British authorities are so concerned about their education institutions being infiltrated by ``extremists'' then I suggest they stop Tony Blair, architect in chief of the illegal and violent 2003 Iraq invasion from speaking at colleges and universities across the UK and the world. His lies and fabrications caused the deaths, directly and indirectly, of thousands of Iraqis, British and Americans. While the survivors of his wars suffer in silence, this former British Prime Minister makes millions through his speaking engagements at educational institutions across the world with little or no sign of remorse for the suffering he caused. Nothing I see in the above articles suggests the British Muslim educators in question did anything illegal, let alone anywhere as remotely destructive as the twice elected British Prime Minister. Britain's interests would be served better if they questioned their own domestic and overseas policies instead of perennially whining on about ``extremist'' from their (mostly) law abiding immigrant communities. There are a total of 21300 Primary and 3900 Secondary schools in the UK. Finding that 6 out of these 25200 had board members who wanted to push their extremist views over the governance of those school is not a Islamic Plot or Trojan Horse to Islamises UK. This is a massive overreaction and the Islamophobia on display in the comments is more terrifying than the actual case itself. Stop the racist witch hunt in Birmingham schools. We Muslims have a right to our religion. I decry everything which denigrates Muslims in this country. The media and governmental attitudes and actions, inflame prejudice and ignorance. We want the best for our children and such baseless witch hunt of school governors does not help the cause of better education.  Stop this hate against Muslims. It is not them who are terrorists , but all those who imply they are with the help of media you try bringing others to your side giving false details - twin towers wasn't Muslim either - that was the Americans - you will not win as Islam Will forever grow and prove it is peaceful through the will of God (Allah SWT)... amen. This is undermining confidence in the Muslim community and increasing Islamophobia. This is another example of the media whipping up hysteria against the UK Muslim community.  The way our Govt treating British Muslims is as if all Muslims are terrorists unless they prove otherwise. Govt should focus on its job. Governors of this school worked hard to help a failing school achieve outstanding rating from Ofsted. Please fix Ofsted and stop demonising Muslims. Nick Clegg on LBC radio indicated that the DFE is full of right wing ideologues and extremist loons. Islamic schools protect Muslim children from the onslaught of Euro centrism, homosexuality, racism, and secular traditions. All education systems appear to be indoctrination systems. I went to a good private school. Guess how we were 'encouraged' to think about politics! Having a Muslim name in UK is a crime. All UK job application forms have sections ask your race and religions. Most UK employers simply reject your applications just by looking at this section. Native Brits must learn to respect and tolerate those who are different. The needs and demands of the Muslim community are different from those of natives. Muslims are in Britain not to give up their cultural heritage. They must integrate in their new home country, learn new languages and apply for political representation -- without forgetting their cultural heritage. It is important to learn Standard English, but their  languages should not be neglected. They need Masajid and grave yards. Muslim children not only need halal meat or Eid Holidays but they need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their development period also. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. The whole world belongs to Muslims. He/she must learn and be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, he/she must learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural heritage and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. For a Muslim English is an economic language and Arabic is a religious while Urdu and other community languages are their social and emotional languages.Muslim children not only need halal meat or Eid Holidays but they need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their development period also. There are hundreds of state primary and secondary schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be opted out to become Muslim Academies. This means the Muslim children will get a decent education. Muslim schools turned out balanced citizens, more tolerant of others and less likely to succumb to criminality or extremism. Muslim schools give young people confidence in who they are and an understanding of Islamic teaching of tolerance and respect which prepares them for a positive and fulfilling role in society. Muslim schools are attractive to Muslim parents because they have better discipline and teaching Islamic values. Children like discipline, structure and boundaries. Bilingual Muslim children need Bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods, who understand their needs and demands. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. Legally, the state has an obligation to respect the rights of parents to ensure that 'education and teaching(of their children) is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions.' The schools must satisfy the spiritual, moral, social, and cultural needs of Muslim pupils. State schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers are not in a position to satisfy their needs. A good school is not just a knowledge factory or a conveyor belt for churning out exam passes - it is a community, a family. A community is held together by common values and principles.IALondon School of Islamics Trust [/b] NOW MY STANDARD REPLY: =12.0pti Everyone=12.0pt =12.0ptFIRST, I LHAVE BEEN ANSWERING IFTIKHAR’S B.S. AND MISLEADING ITEMS FOR A LONG TIME.  Here is my answer that covers most of his misleading items with respect school.=12.0pt =12.0ptIFTIKHAR ASKED FOR AN EXPLANATION, IN AN EMAIL SENT TO ME, AND I HAVE PROVIDED IT RIGHT AFTER HIS QUESTION THAT HE SHOULD WELL KNOW THE ANSWER FOR=12.0pt =12.0ptHe asked the following:=12.0pt =12.0pt“Iftikhar Ahmad commented on a link you shared.=12.0ptIftikhar wrote: "OK, can someone explain the difference here for me... Why is it OK for the Church of England and Catholic church to run schools but this whole 'Islamic plot' thing means Islam can't run schools [or take them over by underhand means or whatever] in Birmingham? I thought Cameron/Gove liked Faith education? Is it just the wrong kind of faith? If a group wanted they could buy shares, a lot of shares, in a company and influence say Tesco to not sell pork products. I know it'd take a hell of a lot of money but it could be done surely? And it'd be legal? [genuine questions..] So why can't a group put themselves forward, become governors and mold the direction of a school to their liking. Isn't that the point of the Academies programme in the first place? Total fabrication to demonize the minorities in this country. Now this happened to another group in 1930s in Germany. The Daily Mail is always demanding that children be taught right from wrong. Well, here are the morality squads doing just that. Of course not everybody agrees on what "right and wrong" are, but the DM has overlooked that until now. The English getting a taste of their own medicine i.e. the ill-treatment of other cultures all around the globe, including the British Isles. Surprise, surprise they don't like it! UPROAR!!!! Segregating boys and girls in assembly in normal and routine in any school. Boy one side and girls the other. However, religious extremism is not. Single sex schools were meant to improve discipline and encourage pupils to concentrate on their work instead of on the opposite sex, not on religious grounds. Islam is a feature of UK life and if the C-of-E and Catholics get their schools, well only fair. And it fits with government policy is all. It is disgraceful that the media and government are creating this fear amongst our communities based on an unfounded and umsigned letter! There is no problem with schools being taken over by overtly christian groups so why should Muslims be any different? Racism is never acceptable, especially coming from the government. The nature and mannerism of such investigations is extremely suspicious and unfair. The investigators and auditors are going into school on the back of recent newspaper articles. This is alienating the community and harbouring tension. This witch-hunt and scapegoating can only lead to divisions and lack of trust within communities. This xenophobic attitude that is becoming more prominent within our society is one of the biggest threats to our peace and harmony. the apparent Islamophobia displayed by the organisations involved in this so called investigation is disgraceful! not to mention the way they have disrupted the children preparations for their forthcoming exams and potentially their future with what appears to be their warped spin and interpretation of their selective 'observations' made within these schools. To add to this the governments response is most abhorrent. What if Muslim staff had complained of being side lined by an Islamophobic SLT within their school? Would this too have been given this much attention? IA"=12.0pt =12.0pt =12.0ptMY ANSWER WITH EVIDENCE AND SOURCES:=12.0pt =12.0ptYou should well know why.  =12.0pt =12.0pt[1]  When did Catholics who are anti-gay ever teach students that gays should be stoned to death?=12.0pt =12.0pt[details, “A Muslim hardliner who says adulterers should be stoned to death and that gay men and fornicators should be lashed 100 times has set up an Islamic school that has received almost £1million of taxpayers’ money.=12.0ptIbrahim Hewitt, one of Britain’s most prominent Islamic firebrands – who also heads a charity branded a ‘terrorist’ organisation by the US – is the founder and chairman of trustees of the Al-Aqsa school in Leicester, which teaches 250 boys and girls aged between three and 11.=12.0ptHe has vilified homosexuals as paedophiles and said a man can take on a second wife if his first fails to satisfy him sexually. Mr Hewitt has published his views in a book on Islam, which he claims has sold more than 50,000 copies in Britain.” …Ibrahim Hewitt, chairman of Al-Aqsa school said that all adulterers should be stoned to death and fornication should be punished with 100 lashes.” [source - retrieved from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...death.html on 4/21 /2014] =12.0pt =12.0ptYes, these actions by gays and homosexuals are deplorable, but in no way as deplorable as recommended Islamic punishment.=12.0pt =12.0pt[2]  Adultery is deplorable, but Islamic idea of punishment for same is much more deplorable; to wit, “Authority in Leicester as an early years grant for teaching three to five-year-olds since 2007.=12.0ptThe preacher is the author of a book called What Does Islam Say?, which spells out his vision of ‘true Islam’. In it he advocates the killing of adulterers by stoning. The book says: ‘Any act that destabilises marriage will also destabilise society. Hence the Islamic punishments for such acts are severe… Married men and women found guilty of adultery are to be stoned to death.’” [source - retrieved from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...death.html on 4/21 /2014] =12.0pt =12.0pt[3]  Prima donna thinking by Islamize is totally unacceptable.   They are against melting in and/or integrating into society; whereas, Catholic and Anglican churches are for integration.  ISOLATIONIST thinking is definitely what good education is all about, so get real.=12.0pt =12.0pt[4]  The founder of Islam was a pedophile and child marriages are still a feature of Islam in many countries, but a Muslim school authority is so hypocritical as to write, “Mr Hewitt says in the book: ‘Islam, like most other major faiths of the world, categorically forbids homosexual practices (sexual relations between two men or between two women), regarding them as a great sin. In a society under Islamic law, such would be severely punished.’=12.0ptHe then compares homosexuals to paedophiles or those who commit incest. The book says: ‘If people have such desires [homosexuality], they should keep them to themselves, and control their desires to avoid forbidden practices.”  [source - retrieved from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...death.html on 4/21 /2014] =12.0pt =12.0ptMore details, =12.0pt =12.0pt(1)  MUHAMMAD WAS A SEX PERVERT – SEE THE PROOF=12.0pt =12.0ptMuhammad was a violent sexual pervert, who formed a false religion that has 1.4 billion followers today.  Muslims who practice Islam have been prepared and are held in reserve at this hour to serve as God’s servants, instruments of war from His armory, to punish a disobedient world, and in particular, rebellious stiff-necked apostate Jews.=12.0ptPervert Muhammad married eleven or thirteen women.  Historians sanitize this filth by jabbering about things like “needs of the tribe,” politics, compassion and “affairs of the heart.” =12.0ptWhen he was 25, Muhammad married his wealthy employer, a 40-year-old merchant named (1) Khadijah.  He was her gigolo; he used her wealth to dally in dreams and pretend he had been told things by God.  When he was 40 he claimed to have been visited by the angel Gabriel who revealed to him a verse from the Qur’an, after which he claimed to be a prophet.  He spent long hours “meditating” and “speculating” about the creation.  He claimed a series of visions occurred while he was hanging out in caves and in the hills and ravines near Mecca. =12.0ptAfter Khadijah died, Muhammad married (2) Sawda bint Zam’a, (3)Aisha and (4)Umm Salam.  Aisha was six when she was betrothed to Muhammed; the marriage was consummated when she was nine or ten. In later years she slipped off to look for an allegedly “lost” wedding necklace, giving rise to claims she was up to mischief with some man.  Not to worry; Muhammed got some verses written and out into the public mainstream bespeaking her innocence and condemning anyone who said otherwise as slanderers.=12.0ptAfter killing her husband, during the Muslim war with Mecca, Muhammad married (5)Hafsa bint Umar when she was 20 (he was 56).  Similarly, after she was widowed at the battle of Badr, Muhammed married (6)Zaynab bint Khuzayma.=12.0ptWhen Abu Salamah died in battle, Muhammad married his widow, (7)Umm Salama Hin bitn Abi Umayya. In 626 (8)Raihanah bint Zaid was among those enslaved after the defeat of the Banu Quarayza tribe, and she became Muhammad’s concubine or wife.=12.0ptLater, Muhammad married his cousin, (9)Zaynab bint Jahsh, after a lot of conflict related to her marriage and divorce with another man.  Muhammad decided in favor of this marriage to break the taboo against incestuous marriages, by informing everyone the Qur’an indicated this marriage was a duty imposed on him by God.=12.0ptAfter he took captives from a skirmish with the Banu Mustaliq, he married one named (10)Juwayriya bint al-Harith, which led to his new kinsmen being released from enslavement.  Then he signed a peace treaty with his Meccan enemies, the Quraysh, and soon thereafter married the daughter of their leader, (11)Abu Sufyan ibn Harb, all for reconciling with his opponents of course. =12.0ptMuhammad sent a proposal for marriage to (12)Ramlah bint Abi-Sufyan when he learned her husband had died.  Then in 629, after the Battle of Khaybar, Muhammad freed (13)Safiyya bint Huyayy, a noblewoman of the defeated Jewish tribe Banu Nadir, and proposed marriage.  She accepted, so he married her as part of reconciliation with the Jewish tribe and a gesture of goodwill. =12.0ptIf these women got into a cat fight about how Muhammad was treating them – in particular how much time or attention each received from him – he made up new rules that he claimed were revelations from God, to keep them in line.  When he died, he left word behind that no one could marry them according to God.  He kept these women in little apartments adjacent to the mosque at Medina, and visited them in rounds day and night. =12.0ptThis was in between his warmongering, whereby he built an estate and army, which put in motion military expeditions that have influence still today.  The only thing that made Muhammad a “prophet” was his military successes.  In a single decade he fought eight major battles, led 18 raids, and planned 38 military operations.  He revolutionized Arabian warfare and mobilized an army motivated by an ideology of holy war (jihad) and martyrdom (shahada).  This transmitted to the West during the wars between Muslims and Christians in Spain and France, and gave the whore Roman Catholic Church an ideological justification for the Crusades. But for his success as a military commander, Islam would not have gained momentum leading to 1.4 billion practitioners today, making it the second largest religion behind Christianity, and the conquest of the Byzantine and Persian empires by Arab armies would not have occurred.  Muhammad transformed the armies of Arabia so his successors could use them to defeat the armies of Persia and Byzantium and establish the heartland of the empire of Islam.=12.0ptMuhammad came along at a time when Muslims were in a defensive mode, often fighting to survive, many living in poverty and oppression.  Muhammad spent thirteen years building a spiritual platform; then the remaining ten years of his life as a leader in military mode, merging these notions – of spirituality and warfare – to establish the false religion known today as Islam.  Supposedly when he started preaching, Muhammad was not violent.  He is said to have been persecuted for preaching his religious ideas – known today as Islam – and denigrating the pagan religions of the Meccans.  He went to Medina after receiving a “revelation” to fight the Meccans, which caused him to turn to warfare.  His “revelation” coalesced with a group of feuding Arabs in Media who accepted him as their prophet, providing him with his first army.  He then began to preach that if anyone gained a victory of the men of Jews, they should kill them.  After some acts of violence where his men killed for him, he saw that he had power, and he became a cold blooded murderer of anyone Jewish or non-Muslim or otherwise categorized as his enemy.  This led to the brand of terrorism that has the whole world in fear today.  Millions of words have been written about Muhammad’s violence, with one example of these details found here: http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/terrorism.htm.  Most who claim to practice Islam today probably don’t even know these details.  Being the descendents of Ishmael, however, it’s of little relevance to them why; they just know they have a deep enmity in their DNA against Jews and the arrogant Americans who support them.=12.0ptMuhammad was a sexual pervert, appointed by God to have military prowess, to put in motion the Islam people.  This prepared the world stage for the Last Days, so there would be a fierce people ready to afflict Israel, in God’s appointed time.  There was nothing holy about Muhammad; he was intelligent and charismatic – attributes given him by God – and he had a role to prepare the Arab people for what God has planned in the last days.  Anyone who worships him is worshiping a pedophile; Islam is a false religion, man-made, utterly unscriptural.  He was a whoremonger and warmonger, the perfect unclean raven to prepare a people to give the Beast a barbaric vicious army for when he becomes king of the world.  [source - retrieved from   http://www.godhatesislam.com/pervertmuhammad.html  on  3/10/2014] =12.0pt =12.0pt =12.0pt(2)  “Reader’s Digest of 1/2013 Exposes Pedophiles As Still Being Tacitly Approved By Islam – Read Reality The Case Of Nujood Ali:=12.0pt =12.0ptNujood Ali was ten years old when a pedophile married her with no objections from local Muslim clergy. This was in keeping with what the false prophet Muhammad did in the 7 th. Century; to wit, , Aisha, a very young girl, was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated. Therefore, today Islam tacitly approves of pedophile marriages to children, i.e., child brides. Of course, not all members of Islam practice or approve of this wicked custom. For example, my husband has a very good Muslim friend from college days that definitely does not and would NEVER have done such a thing with his daughter. However, the religion tacitly approves of child brides, i.e., pedophiles taking young children as brides.=12.0ptLet’s look at my bare bones of the Reader’s Digest article in the January 2013 issue entitled, “I Am Nujood, Age Ten and Divorced,” found on Pages 136 to 147 of that issue. Here is my short abstract in bullet form.=12.0pt1 – Nujood Ali was only ten when married by a Muslim pedophile.=12.0pt2 – She was ten when her request for divorce was granted at the age of 10.=12.0pt3 – Her father had stated, “If you divorce him, my brothers and cousins will kill me!” Clearly showing that the Muslim community approved of child marriages.=12.0pt4 – Judge Abdo was surprised when a ten year old came to him at court wanting a divorce.=12.0pt5 – Her lawyer was Shada Nasser.=12.0pt6 – She wanted an education, not marriage.=12.0pt7 – She NEVER gave her consent to be married, it was forced on her.=12.0ptI recommend all get a copy of the Reader’s Digest of January 2013 and read the entire article starting on Page 136. Note: most libraries will have a copy if you do not have one.=12.0ptNow let’s review what an Encyclopedia has to say with respect Nujood Ali:=12.0ptFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (source - retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nujood_Ali on 2/21/2013) =12.0ptNujood Ali (born 1998) is a figure in Yemen's fight against forced marriage. At the age of ten, she obtained a divorce, breaking with the tribal tradition.[1][2] In November 2008, U.S. women's magazine Glamour designated Nujood Ali and her lawyer Shada Nasser as Women of the Year.[2][3] Ali's courage was praised by prominent women including Hillary Clinton and Condoleezza Rice.[4]=12.0ptAli's lawyer Shada Nasser, born in 1964, is a feminist and specialist in human rights, whose involvement in Ali's case received much acclaim.[3][5] Biography=12.0ptNujood Ali was ten when her parents arranged a marriage to Faez Ali Thamer, a man in his thirties. Regularly beaten by her in-laws and raped by her husband, Ali escaped on April 2, 2008, two months after the wedding. On the advice of her father's second wife, she went directly to court to seek a divorce. After waiting for half a day, she was noticed by a judge, Mohammed al-g?adha, who took it upon himself to give her temporary refuge, and who had both her father and husband taken into custody.[6]=12.0ptShada Nasser agreed to defend Ali. For the lawyer, it was the continuation of a struggle begun with the installation of her practice in Sana'a, which she opened in the 1990s as the first Yemeni law office headed by a woman. She built her clientele by offering services to female prisoners.[5]=12.0ptYemeni law allows girls of any age to wed, but it forbids sex with them until an indefinite time when they are considered "suitable for sexual intercourse." In court, Nasser argued that Ali’s marriage violated the law, since she was raped.[3] Ali rejected the judge's proposal of resuming living with her husband after a break of three to five years.[3] On April 15, 2008,[7] the court granted her a divorce.[3]=12.0pt =12.0ptSEE PART 2

 

5/28/2014 2:51 pm  #6


Re: British Muslim Community

=12.0ptPART 2=12.0pt =12.0ptAfter the trial, Ali rejoined her family in a suburb of Sana'a. She returned to school in the fall of 2008 with plans to become a lawyer.[8] Ali's memoirs were published in 2009, and royalties from international sales of the book were intended to pay for her schooling; but she did not attend school regularly.[9] Because of negative world press coverage about Yemen resulting from the case, Ali's passport was confiscated in March 2009 and she was prevented from attending the ceremonies for the Women's World Award in Vienna, Austria. Media reports also questioned whether proceeds from the book were in fact coming to the family.[10]=12.0ptHowever, as of 2010, Ali's family was living in a new two-story residence bought with the help of her French publisher and running a grocery store on the ground floor of the building. Ali and her younger sister were attending private school full-time.[9]=12.0ptThe English-language version of the memoir was published in March, 2010. Introducing the work, New York Times op-ed columnist Nicholas Kristof praised the work done to raise awareness regarding such societal problems as terrorism, associated with polygamy and child marriage, saying, "little girls like Nujood may prove more effective than missiles at defeating terrorists."[11] Indeed, publicity surrounding Ali's case is said to have inspired efforts to annul other child marriages, including that of an eight-year-old Saudi girl who was allowed to divorce a middle-aged man in 2009, after her father had forced her to marry him the year before in exchange for about $13,000.[11][12][13][14]=12.0ptReferences=12.0pt1. ^ Daragahi, Borzou (June 11, 2008), Yemeni bride, 10, says I won't, Los Angeles TimesmznfzKLDhjsd'gV, retrieved 16 February 2010=12.0pt2. ^ a b Walt, Vivienne (3 February 2009), A 10-Year-Old Divorcée Takes Paris, Time/CNN, retrieved 16 February 2010=12.0pt3. ^ a b c d e Power, Carla (12 August 2009), Nujood Ali & Shada Nasser win "Women of the Year Fund 2008 Glamour Award", Yemen Times, retrieved 16 February 2010=12.0pt4. ^ Evans, Sean (11 November 2008), 10-year-old girl's inspiring story opens eyes at Glamour awards, New York Daily News, retrieved 9 April 2010=12.0pt5. ^ a b Madabish, Arafat (28 March 2009), Sanaa's first woman lawyer, Asharq Alawsat: English edition, retrieved 16 February 2010=12.0pt6. ^ Loving, James (September 5, 2009), Video Beat Part 4 - CNN Explosher= National Radio Text Service, retrieved 16 February 2010. Note: Apart from other details, this website names the judge.=12.0pt7. ^ Ali 2010, p. 107=12.0pt8. ^ Mullins, K.J (August 27, 2009), Child bride Nujood Ali's life after the divorce, Digital Journal, retrieved 16 February 2010=12.0pt9. ^ a b Hersh, Joshua (4 March 2010), A TEN-YEAR-OLD’S DIVORCE LAWYER, The New Yorker, retrieved March 4, 2010.=12.0pt10. ^ Bobi, Emil (14 March 2009). "Kleine große Frau: profil besuchte die zehnjährige Jemenitin Nojoud Ali in Sanaa [Little big woman: Profil visits the ten-year old Yemeni Ali Nojoud in Sanaa]" (in (German)). Profil (Austrian news magazine). Retrieved April 10, 2010.=12.0pt11. ^ a b Kristof, Nicholas (3 March 2010), Divorced Before Puberty, New York Times, retrieved 4 March 2010=12.0pt12. ^ "8-year-old Saudi girl divorces 50-year-old husband". USA Today. 30 April 2009.=12.0pt13. ^ Saudi child 'files for divorce', BBC News, 24 August 2008, retrieved 7 April 2010=12.0pt14. ^ Young Saudi girl's marriage ended, BBC News, 30 April 2009, retrieved 7 April 2010=12.0ptREALITY:=12.0pt =12.0ptGuilt Comes On Organizations That Fail To Clean House Of The Wicked Ones:=12.0pt =12.0ptINTRODUCTION:=12.0pt =12.0ptFirst, The world we live in is ruled by the wicked one as testified to by 1 John 5:19, “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV). If we pick up a newspaper in any country, we find reports of cruelty and violence on an unprecedented scale. Man’s inhumanity to man is troubling for a righteous person to contemplate as testified to at Ecclesiastes 8:9, “All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.” (AV).=12.0pt =12.0ptSecond, Most individuals and/or groups seek to avoid responsibility for their own actions rather than take corrective actions. This also applies to so called religious groups that seek to absolve themselves of responsibility for the wrong actions of members, but fail, willingly, to take action against these wrong doers by purging themselves of these wicked ones.=12.0pt =12.0ptTHE REALITY:=12.0pt =12.0ptIf a religion fails to clean house of evil and wicked men when they are discovered, and especially of evil and wicked men/women taking the lead in a congregation, and/or congregations such as Pastors, Ministers, Sheiks, Imams, Bishops, Cardinals, Etc., then the religion is responsible for their wrong doing. Some religions such as Islam have never cleaned house of evil and wicked individuals when they are discovered and that religion has been violent since its beginning, and many of its members lust for violence in such acts as beheading of others, suscide bombers, makers of IEDs, etc. do to the teachings of their groups religious leaders. One notable example of an evil and wicked individual Islam well knows of who is a leader of a large group of members of Islam is Sheik Osama bin Ladin. Of course, Islam, is NOT the only religion that fails to take effective action against evil and wicked individuals and leaders of groups among them, another is the Catholic and Angalican churches that for many years just moved pedophiles to a new congregation when they were uncovered as the world's news media has so well identified. Groups seeking to keep themselves clean of evil and wicked individuals that sneak into their group take the appropriate action; to wit, they throw them out.=12.0pt =12.0ptNow many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.=12.0pt =12.0ptNow let’s look at one such religion that tries to escape their responsibility for cleaning house so to speak.=12.0pt =12.0ptSECOND, WITH RESPECT =12.0ptJIHAD, HE HAS BEEN TELLING WHOPPER LIES AND POSTING MISLEADING B.S. FOR YEARS AND HERE IS AN EXAMPLE:=12.0pt =12.0ptI received an email from a member of Islam, Ifitkhar ###########, containing many untruths. One of which was that Americans attacked the World Trade Center and NOT members of Islam which is so absurd and utterly ridiculas, but read my informative answer. =12.0pt =12.0ptFIRST, When this attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon occurred, TV showed Muslims celebrating in Cairo, Alexander, Amman, and many other cities in the Muslim world celebrating, and NOT anyone else.  This clearly shows that although only about 25 individuals did the evil, their co-religionist were in complete agreement with the wicked act – i.e., they were co-conspirators after the fact.  How wicked can a religion get?=12.0pt =12.0ptSEE APPENDIX 1 FOR MORE DETAILS – BELOW:=12.0pt =12.0ptSECOND, This individual’s claim is completely bogus and nothing but a whopping lie. =12.0pt =12.0ptSEE APPENDIX 2 FOR MORE DETAILS – BELOW or go to “Anniversary Attack on America” at  http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=152  for an even more detailed account.=12.0pt =12.0ptTHIRD, This evil and unloving crime against humanity is actually called for in the hateful Quran.  =12.0pt =12.0ptSEE APPENDIX 3 FOR MORE DETAILS – BELOW OR go to, http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm  =12.0pt =12.0ptAPPENDIX 1:=12.0pt =12.0ptGuilt Comes On Organizations That Fail To Clean House Of The Wicked Ones:=12.0pt =12.0ptINTRODUCTION:=12.0pt =12.0ptFirst, The world we live in is ruled by the wicked one as testified to by 1 John 5:19, “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV).  If we pick up a newspaper in any country, we find reports of cruelty and violence on an unprecedented scale.  Man’s inhumanity to man is troubling for a righteous person to contemplate as testified to at Ecclesiastes 8:9, “All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.” (AV).=12.0pt =12.0ptSecond, Most individuals and/or groups seek to avoid responsibility for their own actions rather than take corrective actions.   This also applies to so called religious groups that seek to absolve themselves of responsibility for the wrong actions of members, but fail, willingly, to take action against these wrong doers by purging themselves of these wicked ones.=12.0pt =12.0ptTHE REALITY:=12.0pt =12.0ptIf a religion fails to clean house of evil and wicked men when they are discovered, and especially of evil and wicked men/women taking the lead in a congregation, and/or congregations such as Pastors, Ministers, Sheiks, Imams, Bishops, Cardinals, Etc., then the religion is responsible for their wrong doing. Some religions such as Islam have never cleaned house of evil and wicked individuals when they are discovered and that religion has been violent since its beginning, and many of its members lust for violence in such acts as beheading of others, suscide bombers, makers of IEDs, etc. do to the teachings of their groups religious leaders. One notable example of an evil and wicked individual Islam well knows of who is a leader of a large group of members of Islam is Sheik Osama bin Ladin. Of course, Islam, is NOT the only religion that fails to take effective action against evil and wicked individuals and leaders of groups among them, another is the Catholic and Angalican churches that for many years just moved pedophiles to a new congregation when they were uncovered as the world's news media has so well identified. Groups seeking to keep themselves clean of evil and wicked individuals that sneak into their group take the appropriate action; to wit, they throw them out.=12.0pt =12.0ptNow many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.=12.0pt =12.0ptNow let’s look at one such religion that tries to escape their responsibility for cleaning house so to speak.=12.0pt =12.0ptISLAM FAILS TO CLEAN HOUSE:=12.0pt =12.0ptNow of course it is important to recognize that not all Muslims are terrorist and jihadists nor refuse to recognize the property rights of others, it is likewise equally important to recognize that all jihadists are members of Islam.  Islam is totally responsible for their actions as they tacitly approve of their evil wrong doing and have never cleaned house of these wicked ones.  To wit, by not doing so, they have taken on the responsibility for their wrongful actions upon themselves.  Yes, of course they are not the only religion that has failed to clean house; thus taking on the guilt of these wrong doers.  Any religion, no exception, which fails to clean house is nothing but an evil false religion.  And as previously stated, ‘Now many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.’=12.0pt =12.0ptCONCLUSION:=12.0pt =12.0ptMany are just fooling themself, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions.   It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say.   People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders.   Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope (Pope Innocent III (1160 or 1161 – 16 July 1216)), what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them.   Therefore, it is the religion which is at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say.   Neither in so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders.   Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it.   Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.=12.0pt =12.0ptLikewise the failure to clean house of evil ones puts their wrongs directly upon the organization failing to throw out evil/wicked ones when they are found out.=12.0pt =12.0ptAPPENDIX 2:=12.0pt =12.0ptThe ISOLATIONIST are pushing nonsense once more. As I said before, “Immigrants are NOT per-say the problem, I myself am an immigrant, but ISOLATIONIST immigrants such as Iftikhar are the problem. Iftihar and is fellow members are the problem as they are ISOLATIONIST, he has just written a long nonsense post trying to justify special advantages to remain ISOLATIONIST at public expense which is pure anti-social nonsense. He and his followers need to integrate into regular society like myself and the Sheiks have. Every religious group could claim they want state funded schools for their group and if implemented we would have literally hundreds of schools to replace a few integrated public schools – this is just anti social nonsense that would result in excessive cost to the state both monetarily and socially and prevent a cohesive society. As I previously told him, “Iftihar you are way out in left field, no one cares whether you drink or do not eat pork – I do not either – but you have NOT integrated with the people around you. Whereas, I have integrated – that in no way implies that you must adopt their bad ways - and have experienced no prejudice. It is high time you wake up to reality. As for your comments on history, they are simply a so what – wake up. I live with the people of the land, instead of isolated communities of my people, and that is what your people should do. Wake up, get real. Your big problem is you can not accept REALITY, and shrug off unpleasant facts when presented. The British Sheiks you should use as an example and start imitating them instead of being ISOLATIONIST.” A good example of this problem is their Prima-Donna superior attitude of wanting state supported schools just for Muslims. You do NOT SEE other religions requesting same. In fact, this is just what the government should not provide as it only makes them more ISOLATIONIST, and this is not what is needed; to wit, integration is what is needed just as the British Sheiks have done.=12.0pt =12.0pt(1) This ISOLATIONIST said the following nonsense. “twin towers wasn't Muslim either - that was the Americans –“ what an outright LIE. =12.0pt =12.0ptREALITY – ALL THE INDIVIDUALS RESPONSIBLE WERE NOT AMERICAN BUT MEMBERS OF ISLAM, now let’s look at some of the facts:=12.0pt =12.0ptThe September 11 attacks were carried out by 19 hijackers, with planning and organization of the attacks involving numerous additional members of al-Qaeda. The first hijackers to arrive in the United States were Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, who settled in the San Diego area in January 2000. They were followed by Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, and Ziad Jarrah, who all arrived early in the summer of 2000, in order to undertake flight training in south Florida. The fourth pilot, Hani Hanjour, arrived in San Diego in December 2000. The other muscle hijackers, who were trained to help overpower and take over the aircraft, all arrived in the spring and early summer of 2001. =12.0pt =12.0ptInitial selection =12.0ptKhalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were both experienced and respected jihadists in the eyes of al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden. Mihdhar and Hazmi both had previous experience fighting on Bosnia, and had trained during the 1990s at camps in Afghanistan.[1] When Bin Laden committed to the September 11 attacks plot idea, he assigned both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the plot.[2] Both were so eager to participate in operations within the United States, that they obtained visas in April 1999.[3] Once selected, Mihdhar and Hazmi were sent to the Mes Aynak training camp in Afghanistan. In late 1999, Hazmi, Attash and Yemeni went to Karachi, Pakistan to see Mohammed, who instructed them on Western culture and travel; however, Mihdhar did not go to Karachi, instead returning to Yemen.[2] =12.0pt =12.0ptAmerican Airlines Flight 11 =12.0ptMain article: American Airlines Flight 11 =12.0ptTwo flight attendants called the American Airlines reservation desk during the hijacking. Betty Ong reported that "the four hijackers had come from first-class seats: 2A, 2B, 9A, and 9B."[4] Flight attendant Amy Sweeney called a flight services manager at Logan Airport and described them as Middle Eastern.[4] She gave the staff the seat numbers and they pulled up the ticket and credit card info of the hijackers, identifying Mohamed Atta al-Sayed.[5] =12.0ptMohamed Atta was heard speaking over the air traffic control system, broadcasting messages he intended for the passengers.[6] =12.0ptWe have some planes. Just stay quiet and you'll be okay. We are returning to the airport, nobody move. Everything will be okay. If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet.=12.0ptNobody move please. We are going back to the airport, don't try to make any stupid moves. =12.0pt =12.0ptAmerican Airlines Flight 77 =12.0ptTwo hijackers, Hani Hanjour and Majed Moqed were identified by clerks as having bought single, first-class tickets for Flight 77 from Advance Travel Service in Totowa, NJ with $1,842.25 in cash.[4] Renee May, a flight attendant on Flight 77, used a cell phone to call her mother in Las Vegas. She said her flight was being hijacked by six individuals who had moved them to the rear of the plane.[8] Passenger Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, the solicitor general of the United States, stating the flight had been hijacked and the hijackers had knives and box cutters.[9] Two of the passengers had been on the FBI's terrorist-alert list: Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi. =12.0ptForensic remains of the five hijackers were found at the Pentagon, along with remains of the victims.[10] =12.0pt =12.0ptNow that we have covered 2 of the four planes piloted by Muslims, let’s look at the big picture of all involved, all non-American members of Islam:=12.0pt =12.0pthijackers in the September 11 attacks =12.0pt =12.0ptFlight 11 =12.0ptMohamed Atta Satam al-Suqami Waleed al-Shehri Wail al-Shehri Abdulaziz al-Omari =12.0pt =12.0ptFlight 175 =12.0ptMarwan al-Shehhi Fayez Banihammad Mohand al-Shehri Hamza al-Ghamdi Ahmed al-Ghamdi =12.0pt =12.0ptFlight 77 =12.0ptHani Hanjour Khalid al-Mihdhar Majed Moqed Nawaf al-Hazmi Salem al-Hazmi=12.0pt =12.0ptFlight 93 =12.0ptZiad Jarrah Ahmed al-Nami Saeed al-Ghamdi Ahmed al-Haznawi =12.0pt =12.0pt20th hijacker =12.0ptsuspects Ramzi Binalshibh Mohamed al-Kahtani Zacarias Moussaoui Mushabib al-Hamlan Zakariya Essabar Ammar al-Baluchi Walid Muhammad Salih Bin 'Attash Khalid al Zahrani =12.0pt =12.0ptFor more details, go to, Today Is The Anniversary Of The Attack On Americahttp://religioustruths.boardhost.com/vie...php?id=152=12.0pt =12.0ptAs can be seen this individual is telling untruth once more. Apparently he wants the opportunity of having Muslim teachers teach lies like this – this should absolutely be prevented.=12.0pt =12.0ptCONCLUSION:=12.0pt =12.0ptThey want their own schools in the United Kingdom (UK) and other non-Islamic countries so they can indoctrinate their youth to have of others as shown in the article above. Such an organization =12.0pt APPENDIX 3 

Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?


Summary Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran. 
The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember." 

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam). 

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.
 SEE PART 3

 

5/28/2014 2:53 pm  #7


Re: British Muslim Community

PART 3

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you," 

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today. 

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah." [[But there is the true God, Almighty God (YHWH) which members of Islam Overlook]]

Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'." 

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."

Bukhari 1:35 "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)." 

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.


Additional Notes: 
Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic fundamentalism.

The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran. Few verses of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones. This is why Muslim apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret the Quran without their "assistance" - even while claiming that it is a perfect book.

Far from being mere history or theological construct, the violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest. Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey. Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

So ingrained is violence in the religion that Islam has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself. 

Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and even butchered captives. He actually inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members were slaughtered. 

It is important to emphasize that, for the most part, Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and the religion's most dramatic military conquests were made by the actual companions of Muhammad in the decades following his death. The early Islamic principle of warfare was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves. Although modern apologists often claim that Muslims are only supposed to attack in self-defense, this is an oxymoron that is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Islamic historians and others that go back to the time of Muhammad. 

Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely obliterated only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army that was sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what Muslim apologists might refer to as "same day marriage"). 

One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] inorder to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he notes: "Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life."

The widely respected Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur'an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."

Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best first fought to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then, within the closer community, early Meccan converts battled later ones. Hostility developed between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this day. 

The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.

This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in their holy book, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.

Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most respected philosophers, understood that"the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other Muslims are either unaware or willfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. Their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for believers to think that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to learn that the evidence of the Quran and the bloody history of Islam are very much in contradiction to this.

Others simply accept the violence. In 1991, a Palestinian couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being too Westernized. A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their daughter or lose respect." (source). In 2011, unrepentant Palestinian terrorists, responsible for the brutal murders of civilians, women and children explicitly in the name of Allah were treated to a luxurious "holy pilgrimage" to Mecca by the Saudi king - without a single Muslim voice raised in protest.

For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.

There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam.
[source - retrieved from http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm on 5/23/2014] 

NOTE: I challenge anyone to show any factual errors in what I said.

THIRD, IF A RELIGION DOES NOT ‘CLEAN HOUSE’ OF KNOWN WICKED ONES, IT ITSELF IS WICKED.

ISLAM FAILS TO CLEAN HOUSE:

Now of course it is important to recognize that not all Muslims are terrorist and jihadists nor refuse to recognize the property rights of others, it is likewise equally important to recognize that all jihadists are members of Islam. Islam is totally responsible for their actions as they tacitly approve of their evil wrong doing and have never cleaned house of these wicked ones. To wit, by not doing so, they have taken on the responsibility for their wrongful actions upon themselves. Yes, of course they are not the only religion that has failed to clean house; thus taking on the guilt of these wrong doers. Any religion, no exception, which fails to clean house is nothing but an evil false religion. And as previously stated, ‘Now many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.’

CONCLUSION:

Many are just fooling themself, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions. It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say. People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders. Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope (Pope Innocent III (1160 or 1161 – 16 July 1216)), what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them. Therefore, it is the religion which is at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say. Neither in so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders. Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it. Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.

Likewise the failure to clean house of evil ones puts their wrongs directly upon the organization failing to throw out evil/wicked ones when they are found out.” 

Whereas Catholic and Anglican religions ex-communicate or throw out the evil ones.

[5] Islam considers terrorism okay as shown they take no action against their members committing it. A group of this sort should in no way be running any publically supported schools. In fact 95% of religiously inspired terrorism is my members of Islam. [source - retrieved The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]

DEFINITELY NOT THE TYPE OF GROUP YOU WANT TEACHING YOUTHS.

 

5/28/2014 2:54 pm  #8


Re: British Muslim Community

Hi Everyone
 
Iftikhar Ahmad starts out by saying,
 
“Britons should celebrate the fact that their country is a “multi-cultural nation”, senior Conservatives have said.” 
 
Now, let’s look at what TRUE multi-culture is from the Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Multiculturalism is the cultural diversity of communities and the policies that promote this diversity. As a descriptive term, multiculturalism is the simple fact of cultural diversity and the demographic make-up of a specific place, sometimes at the organizational level, e.g., schoolsbusinessesneighborhoodscities, or nations. As a prescriptive term, multiculturalism encourages ideologies and policies that promote this diversity or its institutionalization. In this sense, multiculturalism is a society “at ease with the rich tapestry of human life and the desire amongst people to express their own identity in the manner they see fit.”[1]
Multicultural ideologies or policies vary widely,[2][/url] ranging from the advocacy of equal respect to the various cultures in a society, to a policy of promoting the maintenance of cultural diversity, to policies in which people of various ethnic andreligious groups are addressed by the authorities as defined by the group they belong to.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism#cite_note-3][3][/url][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism#cite_note-guardianmalik-4][4]
Two main different and seemingly inconsistent strategies have developed through different government policies and strategies. The first focuses on interaction and communication between different cultures. Interactions of cultures provide opportunities for the cultural differences to communicate and interact to create multiculturalism. This approach is also often known as interculturalism. The second centers on diversity and cultural uniqueness. Cultural isolation can protect the uniqueness of the local culture of a nation or area and also contribute to global cultural diversity.[5][/url][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism#cite_note-Meyer2010-6][6][/url] A common aspect of many policies following the second approach is that they avoid presenting any specific ethnic, religious, or cultural community values as central.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism#cite_note-Cotter2011-7][7]
Multiculturalism is often contrasted with the concepts of assimilationism and has been described as a "salad bowl" or "cultural mosaic" rather than a "melting pot".[8]
References
[list=1]
[*]Jump up^ Kevin Bloor (February 2010). The Definitive Guide to Political Ideologies. AuthorHouse. p. 272. ISBN 978-1-4490-6761-8.
[*]Jump up^ Thomas L. Harper (13 January 2011). Dialogues in urban and regional planning. Taylor & Francis. p. 50. ISBN 978-0-415-59334-2.
[*]Jump up^ "Dictionary.Reference.com". Dictionary.Reference.com. Retrieved 2010-12-10.
[*]Jump up^ Kenan Malik (2010-03-17). "Guardian.co.uk". London: Guardian. Retrieved 2010-12-10.
[*]Jump up^ Colin Marsh (1997). Key concepts for understanding curriculum: Perspectives. Falmer Press. pp. 121–122. ISBN 978-0-7507-0587-5.
[*]Jump up^ Elizabeth J. Meyer (30 August 2010). Gender and sexual diversity in schools: an introduction. Springer. p. 16. ISBN 978-90-481-8558-0.
[*]Jump up^ Anne-Marie Mooney Cotter (28 February 2011). Culture clash: an international legal perspective on ethnic discrimination. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. p. 13.ISBN 978-1-4094-1936-5.
[*]Jump up^ Burgess, Ann Carroll; Burgess, Tom (2005). Guide to Western Canada (7th ed.). Globe Pequot Press. p. 31. ISBN 0-7627-2987-2. Retrieved 2011-01-16.
[*]Jump up^ Geneviève Zarate; Danielle Levy; Claire Kramsch (19 April 2011). Handbook of Multilingualism and Multiculturalism. Archives contemporaines. p. 377.ISBN 978-2-8130-0039-2.
[*]Jump up^ "Policy Paper no. 4 - Multiculturalism: New Policy Responses to Diversity". Unesco.org. Retrieved 2010-12-10.
[/list]
[source - retrieved from   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism  on  5/28/2014]
 
BUT THEN GOES ON TO SAY,
 
“"Multiculturalism is the name for the condition in which antagonistic cultures co-exist in the same country.”
 
WHICH NEGATES EVERYTHING ELSE HE SAID, AS NO COUNTRY NEEDS AN ANTAGONISTIC CULTURE.   Antagonistic cultures are always bad for a nation and Britain is no exception.
 
Let’s look  the meaning of the word antagonistic.
 
“an·tag·o·nis·tic  adjective \(ˌ)an-ˌta-gə-ˈnis-tik\
: showing dislike or opposition : showing antagonism
Full Definition of ANTAGONISTIC:  marked by or resulting from antagonism
— an·tag·o·nis·ti·cal·ly   adverb
[img]file:///C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\12\clip_image001.jpg[/img] See antagonistic defined for English-language learners »
See antagonistic defined for kids »
Examples of ANTAGONISTIC
[list=1]
[*]They found it impossible to deal with such antagonisticgroups.
[*]<countries that have been antagonistic towards each other for centuries>”  [source - retrieved from   http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antagonistic  on  528/2014]
[/list]
 
FOR A TRULY MULTI-CULTURE BENEFICIAL SOCIETY YOU NEED, MUST HAVE, TRULY NON-ANTAGONISTIC GROUPS.  
 
AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE,
 
“Immigrants are NOT per-say the problem, I myself am an immigrant, but ISOLATIONIST immigrants such as Iftikhar are the problem.  Iftihar and is fellow members are the problem as they are ISOLATIONIST, he has just written a long nonsense post trying to justify special advantages to remain ISOLATIONIST at public expense which is pure anti-social nonsense.  He and his followers need to integrate into regular society like myself and the Sheiks have.  Every religious group could claim they want state funded schools for their group and if implemented we would have literally hundreds of schools to replace a few integrated public schools – this is just anti social nonsense that would result in excessive cost to the state both monetarily and socially and prevent a cohesive society.   As I previously told him, “Iftihar you are way out in left field, no one cares whether you drink or do not eat pork – I do not either – but you have NOT integrated with the people around you.   Whereas, I have integrated – that in no way implies that you must adopt their bad ways - and have experienced no prejudice.   It is high time you wake up to reality.  As for your comments on history, they are simply a so what – wake up.   I live with the people of the land, instead of isolated communities of my people, and that is what your people should do.   Wake up, get real.   Your big problem is you can not accept REALITY, and shrug off unpleasant facts when presented.   The British Sheiks you should use as an example and start imitating them instead of being ISOLATIONIST.”  A good example of this problem is their Prima-Donna superior attitude of wanting state supported schools just for Muslims.  You do NOT SEE other religions requesting same.  In fact, this is just what the government should not provide as it only makes them more ISOLATIONIST, and this is not what is needed; to wit, integration is what is needed just as the British Sheiks have done.”
 
Now to know the truth, go to:
 
1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/
 
2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/
 
3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/
 
4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/
 
5) http://religious-truths.forums.com/
 
6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/
 
7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/
 
To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,  http://religious-truths.forums.com/default/digital-book-on-18-part-follow-christ-bible-study-3?replies=6#post-1421
 
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 
Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to www.jw.org! 

 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum