Many Muslims Love Violence And Celebrate In The Streets The Boston Marathon Massacre – The Fruits Of an Evil Religion
 
The Boston Bombings and Understanding the Islamic Worldview
Interview with Mark Durie
Christian Worldview Radio
April 27, 2013
 
http://www.meforum.org/3497/boston-bombings-islamic-worldview
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David Wheaton: Perhaps you watched the Boston Marathon bombings that killed four people and injured more than 200 others and wondered, "Why would two young Muslim men, who were granted political asylum in America years ago, educated in our schools, and received financial aid from U.S. taxpayers, set off two bombs in order to murder and maim as many Americans as possible?"
 
It's a very good question. It has been said that, "All Muslims are not terrorists … but almost all terrorist attacks against America are committed by Muslims."
 
Why is this? What is it about Islam — or perhaps about America? — that leads two young Muslims to murder the people that have actually taken them in?
Mark Durie, an Australian pastor and author of three books on Islam joins us from Australia The Christian Worldview all the way from Australia.
 
Many pastors are trying to find common ground between the Christian faith and Islam, for instance the document that came out a few years ago in America, A Common Word Between Us and You signed by many evangelical leaders and the leaders of Islam. Why have you focused on the critical differences and pointed out some of the negative aspects of Islam?
 
Mark Durie: I think we do have precious common ground with Muslims, but it's in our humanity, not in faith.
 
I think it's really important to hold love together with truth, and not to abandon one for the other, or to pit them against each other. Truth means acknowledging the differences, which are great and significant, and not glossing over them or pretending they don't exist. When you're dealing with a very different faith it takes an effort and care to really understand those differences. That's been part of my work, to help people understand what seems incomprehensible, what those differences really are.
 
DW: The Free Republic reported on April 15, saying this, "Shortly after terror bombs exploded and murdered over 12 people at the Boston marathon – I guess that's an incorrect number – members of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah were reported to be dancing in the streets of Gaza, handing out candies to passers by. The head of an Islamic organization in Jordan, the Muslim Salafi group, said he's 'happy to see the horror in America' after the bombing attacks in Boston. 'American blood isn't more precious than Muslim blood,' said Mohammad al-Chalabi, who was convicted in an Al-Qa'ida-linked plot to attack US and other Western diplomatic missions in Jordan. 'Let the Americans feel the pain we endured by their armies occupying Iraq and Afghanistan and killing our people there.'"
 
Reportedly some people in the Muslim world celebrated the Boston bombings. The vast majority of the Muslim world not condemn it – I know there were some select Muslims who did.
 
MD: I think there are certainly Muslims who regard the West and America as the enemy and rejoice in what they regard as inflicting pain and harm on their enemy. So there are some like that. I think some Muslims in American also really prefer to emphasize that Muslims are the real victims – that's a theological theme in Islam, that Muslims are the victims – so they don't want the attention to be taken away from that. Also some Muslims don't want to apologize for Islam. It causes them distress to have to engage with this [incidents of Islamic terrorism] and they resent being held to account for their faith. So there's a deeper denial sometimes, at least among Western Muslims about Islamic radicalism. All these factors sometimes make it difficult for Muslims to engage.
DW: Now the response of the parents of bombers – the mother and the father – they had this to say in the immediate aftermath of the bombing: …
 
[Mother here:] "What happened is a terrible thing, but I know that my kids had nothing to do this."
 
[Father here:] "Somebody clearly framed them. I don't know exactly who framed them but they did. They framed them and then they were so cowardly that they shot them dead. There are policemen like that."
 
[Mother:] "They were being killed just because they were Muslims. Nothing else."
[Interviewer:] "Do you think they'll get a fair trial?"
[Mother:] "Only Allah knows it. I don't know."
 
DW: So that was the mother and the father of the two bombers. You could understand how parents are in denial sometimes. But it seems that there is an unbridgeable truth gap between the West and the Muslim world. For instance, whether it is just denying the patently obvious of what took place in Boston, but even on a broader scale, denial of the holocaust; or saying that 9/11 was not done by Muslims, it was an inside job; or the 'fact' that America is out to take over the world – that sort of thing. In your studies is there an unbridgeable truth gap between the West and the Muslim world?
 
MD: I think there's an emotional world-view gap that drives the truth gap. Shame and honour are very powerful forces in Islamic culture, and there's a desire to claim the moral high ground of being a victim. They did this to them "just because they are Muslims," the mother of the bombers said.
 
"We are the victims!" one Muslim scholar was screaming on al-Jazeera, in a debate with Wafa Sultan, who is a doctor who left Islam. She had challenged him, saying, look Muslims had done some bad things, but he just began to scream at her: "We are the victims!"
 
This sense that "We are the victims: there's nothing wrong with us, it is someone else's fault": that is what drives these wild conspiracy theories and denial of obvious and plain truth. I think underlying it is something like shame or just some sort of fear, and this creates the sense of unreality. The Muslim world is awash with bizarre conspiracy theories. There is a truth gap, but it is because of an emotional world-view gap.
 
DW: Chris Matthews, a politially liberal host here in America, had this to say as they were trying to find a possible reason or motivation behind these bombings.
 
[Clint Van Zandt, FBI Profiler:] "The pieces we don't have Chris is "Where was their inspiration? Where did they get their guidance? Who taught them how to build the bombs? Where did they build them? These are a lot of questions."
[Chris Matthews, interrupting and shouting over Van Zandt:] "Why is that important? Why is that important to prosecuting? Is that important to prosecuting? I mean, what difference does it make why they did if they did it? I'm being tough here but I don't know whether, when you look at all this evidence…"
 
Frankly Mark, I do want to know why they did this. How much credence is there to [the claim that] Muslims conducting terrorist attacks in America is because of America's "meddling" in the Islamic world, like that previous quote, of being involving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Others will say they hate our freedom and lifestyle and they try to kill us because of that.
Contrary to what Chris Matthews just said, I really do want to know what motivates these Islamic terrorists, these two young men specifically, to do this kind of thing.
 
MD: Well the first thing is that it is not just Americans that are being attacked by radical Muslims. Just recently the Coptic cathedral in Cairo was attacked and someone was shot. Actually Christian minorities in Muslim countries are attacked and hated as well, so it is not just America.
 
The root of the problem is in the Qur'an. The Qur'an says "Fighting is obligatory for you, though you dislike it." [Sura 2:126]. The word in Arabic for fighting means "to kill." And it says also "I shall cast terror into the hearts of the disbelievers. Cut off their heads, and cut off their limbs." [Sura 8:12]
There's a stream that's at the core of Islam that generates hatred against non-believers. Christians are being killed and attacked in Nigeria and in the Sudan, and that's not because they are a world power or a dominant force.
 
There is an old Islamic doctrine that the blood of infidels is halal: it can be taken. It's not a crime to attack a non-Muslim, and the radicals, like the Tsarnaev brothers, they are taught this sort of worldview. It's the devaluation of the lives of non-Muslims in these radical versions of Islam that's the real problem.
 
The blame-the-victim response – "it's our fault that we're being killed" – that's a terrible mistake to fall into. That's just what the terrorists want you to think – that it's your fault.
 
DW: So if America weren't involved in the Middle East, let's say not involved in Afganistan and Iraq - let's say still supporting Israel as an ally - these kind of things would still happen?
 
MD: Oh absolutely. The hostility would only increase. America stands for the freedom and the power and might of the non-Muslim world, and that's enough to justify the jihad. You won't get peace by withdrawing from those places. It's not going to happen.
 
DW: I watched these Boston bombings and the aftermath in the media, and I thought "What are they really trying to accomplish, these two Muslim men, by just setting off two bombs and randomly killing some civilians on a street in Boston. One would think that would turn world opinion against them, but it doesn't seem to. What do you think is trying to be accomplished? Are they trying to take over America? Obviously that's not going to work. They can't do it with a couple of bombs on a sidewalk in Boston.
 
MD: Well, there's two reasons. One is, as the Qur'an says, to strike terror in the hearts of the enemy [Sura 8:60, see also 3:150, 8:], to condition fear in who they [the terrorists] regard as the enemy, which is non-Muslims.
And the other is, as a leading scholar in Syria [Al-Bouti see here] said in a ruling made about suicide bombings, it is permissible to do it to spite the enemy, that is to hurt them. So there's the desire to hurt someone who is
thought to be an enemy. That's the pleasure of inflicting harm on your enemy.
 
DW: Mark, let's come back to America, from the standpoint of Americans to this. Why don't you think President Obama ever mentions the words Muslim or Islam in connection with terrorist attacks like this in Boston, when clearly the Islamic religion is the motivating force behind these Muslims doing this?
 
MD: For one thing he has a secular liberal view that all religions are much the same. So he denies that Islam is the reason or makes any contribution to these acts.
 
Furthermore he identifies with Islam – as he has explained to the Muslim world – because his father was a Muslim and he was exposed to Islamic worldview and background when he was a kid. So he is very deliberate about deflecting attention away from Islam. He has forbidden his spokespeople to make any links between Islam and terrorism. It is his deliberate policy to do that.
 
DW: The political left here in America were openly hoping that the bombers would be an American terrorist, like a Timothy McVeigh, the guy who blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma, sort of a home grown right-wing extremist type person. They were hoping the bombers would not be Muslim. Why do you think the political Left want to protect Islam, especially when Islam is so against what the Left holds dear, things like sexual "freedom", homosexuality, multiculturalism… None of these things are tenets of Islam. They stand against those things, but the political left sides with the Muslims, they go soft on calling this what it is, Islamic terrorist.
 
MD: It's true, David, that those on the left wouldn't last long in an Islamic state, but they support the Islam project. That's a really fascinating thing and there's a number of reasons that all come together. One is that the left hasn't really come to terms with the failure of communism, and they don't actually have an ideal to hold out as a result, except that they hate capitalism, and thus they hate America as well, and they share that hatred with radical Islam. So on the basis that "Whoever is my enemy's enemy must be my friend," there's a natural partnering there.
 
Another is the victimhood thing. The left loves a victim, and Islam promotes itself – Muslims promote themselves – as victims, so there's a partnering there.
And another is that both ideologies are totalitarian, so there's somehow an affinity where the two work together. But as you say, radical sharia law would just destroy many of the projects that the left holds dear.
 
DW: I've often thought that the Islamic world – those who are intent on world domination – think that the bigger force to deal with first are those who hold the conservative or Christian worldview in the west, and once they are dealt with there's going to be no problem to take out the political left.
 
Mark, these young men, the Boston bombers, had been in America – they were actually given politcal asylum here in America, escaping their homeland over in the former Soviet Republic of Chechenya. They had been in America for many years – I think at least one of them had been here for about ten years -– and were supported financially to a large extent by Americans taxpayers. From your understanding, your research, how does one get radicalized to the point that they would actually attack the country that had helped them?
 
MD: I think there's two reasons. One was explained by their uncle, Uncle Ruslan, [here] who had absolute contempt for them. He said they did not 'settle' – that is, they couldn't find a meaningful way of making a path for themselves. Tamerlan had wanted to be an engineer, but he did not do well enough; then he wanted to do boxing, but he wasn't quite good enough at that; he felt superior but he wasn't getting on.
 
But the [second] key factor then was that they were exposed to radical teachers who told them about their superiority as conservative Muslims, and offered them this sense of significance, the hope of achieving paradise if they gave their lives in jihad. It's that radicalisation, the teaching, the doctrine, which was the key issue.
 
DW: The wife of the older bomber. She was just a regular American girl. I think she was just in college. She met the older bomber and then was married to him, and she actually converted to Islam, which is to me very unusual, to grow up in America, to know the lifestyle here in America of personal freedom versus voluntarily taking on the constrictions of Islam with the headcovering and the different kinds of lifestyle restrictions. What is allure of Islam for a American girl who decides all of a sudden to convert to that religion?
 
MD: It's interesting David that quite a lot of women are converting to Islam in the West, more perhaps than men. One woman explained to me that sometimes Muslim men are good looking and attractive, so there's that factor.
And for some young women, the modern secular west seems rootless, and morally and spiritually lost and Islam seems to offer safe-haven, a place where you know what you are supposed to do, where you've got a clear place, and where you don't have to put yourself on show.
 
Sometimes women are ignorant and deceived.
 
There's also the issue of dominance. It seems that Katharine Russell partnered with a young man who was abusive and dominating and he put a lot of pressure on her. All those factors can come together.
 
DW: A strain of Islam, both preached by some Imams and practiced by certain followers, actually encourages death – either death by martyrdom for the cause of Islam, as the only sure path to Allah, or also death to non-Muslims, as you have been talking about, and that's where we see these terrorist attacks as something that pleases Allah. Now it's just the opposite in the Christian faith. Jesus said "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it abundantly." Jesus also said in John 8:44 "He, Satan, was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and a father of lies." I don't want to be too extreme on this, because Satan is the father of all false religions, because he's very happy that people are religious but not following the one and only true way through Jesus Christ. How do you categorise Islam compared to other false ways?
 
MD: I think it's true that Islam does emphasize death, and the Qur'an criticizes the Jews for loving life [Sura 2:96]. And it's also true that Islam is in many respects very antagonistic to core values of the gospel. Muhammad, for example, hated crosses and would destroy anything that had a cross on it. Also Islam has been the most devastating ideology in terms of its impact on the Christian world. Most of the ancient Christian world was overwhelmed. His track record is really incredibly devastating. I believe Muhammad was a false prophet. His message was not true. He did not lead people to God but away from God.
Is it the ultimate? Is it the worst expression of the Satanic delusion, that all of us can be affected by? I'm reluctant to say that, but certainly militant Islam has had a hugely devastating effect.
 
This is one reason why I find it very distressing when people in the West speak of "the prophet Muhammad". He's not a prophet. He's a false prophet. And we need to find ways that really distance ourselves from the claims of Islam, so that we don't just accept them or speak about it with reverence and respect. Because it is not a true religion.
 
DW: What would you say to those professing Christians that think that Islam and Christianity can work together because of our shared values of "loving God and loving neighbor"? A lot of Christians think that Allah and God – and Muslims used those words interchangeably — are the same thing. How would you respond to that Mark?
 
MD: I think it's tempting to think that people of a different faith just believe more or less the same things that we do. We look at another faith and think "Oh it must be the same." But that's just too easy. You need to pay attention to what people actually teach and believe. And even some leading Christian thinkers and writers like Miroslav Volf from Yale University have said "Islam teaches love of the neighbor." It's not true. Islam teaches love of the Muslim neighbor, but not of the non-Muslim neighbor.
 
The Qur'an actually teaches Muslims to show harshness to non-Muslim neighbors and to fight against them [Sura 9:123, Sura 48:29] so you shouldn't look to religion to be the basis of working together. You should look to common humanity.
 
I think Christians and Muslims can work together, but not based on a shared religious belief, but rather on their shared humanity, their conscience, their awareness of right and wrong that's not necessarily based on religion at all, but is just part of the human condition.
 
DW: What have you found that helps Christians and people in general understand and deal with Islam in the best way?
 
MD: I think it's really important to study Islam for yourself. Look at the original sources. There are some very good books that make those sources available. Take the Life of Muhammad: to understand how different it actually is, you really need to be confronted with teachings that say do not love non-Muslims. You need to read those things thoroughly. My book The Third Choice explains Islam clearly, and that's a resource.
 
Another thing is you need to set aside the need to be comforted, such as thinking that all religions are the same, or everyone is basically decent: that's not a good basis for examining these differences. You have to pay attention and look at the issues for what they are.
 
Another is don't try to find solutions too quickly. Solutions come later. First you have to understand the problem and live with that and understand that first. The solutions will come as you allow those facts to come to your mind.
DW: Tell us what the situation is like in Australia with regards to Australia? Are you experiencing a lot of the same things, maybe more, because you are closer to the Islamic world? What's it like down there Mark?
 
MD: About 2.4% of the Australian population is Muslim. They come from many, many different countries, so their stories are very diverse, because they come from different places. Some Muslims have had difficulties settling here, and we have certainly have the radicals here too – as in the US, where I think there have been hundreds of potential Boston bombings that have been thwarted by the FBI – we've had issues here too: people have been arrested and imprisoned for plotting here. In general most Muslims are doing pretty well and adapting well to Australia, but it's not all roses by any means.
 
One really good thing that's happened here is that both sides of politics have repeatedly said very clearly we're not going to have sharia law here. There's one law for all. All people are going to be equal before the law. That's our common law tradition. And if you want to live in Australia that's what have to put up with, and that's the way it works. That's been good: our government has made very clear statements about our values and our legal system to the Muslims that have come into the country. And I wish government leaders around the world would say that very clearly to their Muslim immigrants.
 
DW: Now Mark one final question. You've written three books on Islam. You're a pastor. You speak very graciously and yet the truth that you speak might be offensive to some Muslims in Australia and Muslims who are listening today. What has been the response to a pastor saying the kinds of things you say? It doesn't seem to be inflammatory. You point out the differences, which I think is completely fair game. What has been the response that you get from the Muslim world.
 
MD: I've had a range of responses. Sometimes Muslims have been intrigued by what I've had to say and I've had some very interesting interactions with them. Understanding the religion enables that to happen. Occasionally people have just been offended and they dismiss you, but I find that if you love people and you express your views graciously, and you don't assume that the person who you're speaking to has certain beliefs, and you ask them what they believe, and inquire about what they believe, you can have a very good relationship with them. I have friends who debate with Muslims in Hyde Park in London, and often if you can engage in a very frank and open way you can connect very powerfully, much better than if you have a wishy-washy fearful "Oh we'll all the same" approach. You are much less likely to have a significant engagement with Muslims if you have that view.
 
Mark Durie is an Anglican vicar in Melbourne, Australia, author of The Third Choice, and an Associate Fellow at the Middle Eastern Forum.
 
For a solution, go to,  http://s11.zetaboards.com/ReligiousTruths/topic/7457748/1/ 
 
Now a pointed question – no other religion speaks of radicalized members who are tolerated.  Have you ever heard of a radicalized Methodist, Lutheran, Jehovah’s Witness, Seven Day Adventist, Episcopalian, Jew, Anglican, etc.?
 
Also, other religions ex-communicate and/or otherwise throw out evil members when they are discovered, but many Muslims celebrate the acts of evil members, such as dancing in the street in celebration of the Boston Marathon Massacre.
 
Now to know the truth, go to:
 
1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/
 
2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/
 
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Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 
Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to www.jw.org!
 

The Usual, Many Muslims Plan And Enjoy Killing Non-Muslims – More Proof Example
BOISE, Idaho (AP) — An Uzbekistan national living in Idaho has been arrested on federal charges that he gave support, cash and other resources to help a recognized terrorist group in his home country plan a terrorist attack.
Fazliddin Kurbanov, 30, is expected to make his first appearance in U.S. District Court Friday morning, one day after federal agents arrested him during a raid of his small Boise apartment. Kurbanov was arrested after an extensive investigation into his activities in Idaho and Utah late last year and this year. A federal grand jury indictment charges Kurbanov with one count of conspiracy to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization, and one count of conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and possession of an unregistered explosive device.
A separate federal grand jury in Utah also returned an indictment charging Kurbanov with distributing information about explosives, bombs and weapons of mass destruction. Wendy Olson, the U.S. attorney in Idaho, said Kurbanov is the only person charged, and any potential threat was contained by his arrest.
"He was closely monitored during the course of the investigation," she said. "The investigation has been underway for some time." Olson declined to share any specifics of Kurbanov's alleged activities, including whether any potential terrorist threat or targets were domestic or abroad.
A statement from the U.S. attorney's office said Kurbanov is in the United States legally, but Olson declined to give specific details about his immigration status. It was unclear when he moved to Idaho or the extent of his activities in Utah. An Idaho telephone number registered to Kurbanov has been disconnected.
The Idaho indictment alleges that between August 2012 and May 2013, Kurbanov knowingly conspired with others to provide support and resources, including computer software and money, to the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, which the U.S. has identified as a terrorist organization. The group's purpose is to overthrow the government of Uzbekistan, said David B. Barlow, U.S. attorney in Utah.
The alleged co-conspirators were not named. In count two, the indictment alleges Kurbanov provided material support to terrorists, knowing that the help was to be used in preparation for a plot involving the use of a weapon of mass destruction.
The indictment also alleges that on Nov. 15, 2012, Kurbanov possessed an explosive device, consisting of a series of parts intended to be converted into a bomb. Those parts included a hollow hand grenade, a hobby fuse, aluminum powder, potassium nitrate and sulfur.
Meanwhile, in Utah, federal investigators said that for a 10-day period in January 2013, Kurbanov taught and demonstrated how to make an "explosive, destructive device, and weapon of mass destruction."
The grand jury alleges that Kurbanov provided written recipes for how to make improvised explosive devices and went on instructional shopping trips in Utah showing what items are necessary to buy to make the devices, Barlow said. Kurbanov also showed Internet videos on the topic, Barlow said.
The prosecutor declined to say whom Kurbanov took on the shopping trips in Utah but said that information will come out as the case moves through the courts. The indictment from Utah also alleges that Kurbanov intended that the videos, recipes, instructions and shopping trips be used to make an explosive device for the "bombings of a place of public use, public transportation system, and infrastructure facility."
The arrest, Barlow said, shows that "there is no priority that is more important than the protection of the public and the prevention and disruption of alleged terrorist activities — wherever they might occur."
Although the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan started in the 1990s with the stated aim of overthrowing the Uzbek regime and establishing an Islamic government, its goals have expanded to creating a broader Central Asian caliphate.
The movement's fighters have a presence in Afghanistan's northern provinces and in Pakistan's Waziristan province. U.S. and Afghan officials say al-Qaeda has been building ties with the IMU. Last year, an Uzbek named Ulugbek Kodirov was sentenced to a minimum 15 years in prison in Alabama for plotting to shoot President Barack Obama while on the campaign trial. Kodirov pleaded guilty, saying he was acting at the behest of the IMU.
According to Idaho's court system, Kurbanov has no criminal convictions but was ticketed for speeding violations twice in 2012 — once in October, when he paid a $90 fine, and another instance in May when he paid $85.  [source - retrieved from    http://www.mail.com/news/us/2092554-idaho-man-heads-to-court-terrorism-arrest.html#.7518-stage-hero1-10   on  5/17/2013]
 
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Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 
Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to www.jw.org! 

 
 
Attack casts spotlight on radical preachers[Associated Press] Associated Press – 5 hrs ago
LONDON (AP) — The slaying of a British soldier in southeast London cast a spotlight on radical preachers that influenced Michael Adebolajo, the attacker seen in videos with bloody hands holding a butcher knife. It also raised questions about the reach of the terrorist group al-Shabab, after a British government official said one of the two men tried to go to Somalia to train or fight with the group. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the police investigation.
Here's a look at the preachers and al-Shabab.
OMAR BAKRI MUHAMMED
Spiritual leader and founder of the group al-Muhajiroun. The group catapulted to notoriety after the Sept. 11 attacks by organizing an event to celebrate the airplane hijackers. Bakri, who now lives in Lebanon, had been one of the most aggressive voices of radical Islam in Britain. Members of the cell behind the July 7, 2005, London transit bombings also had links to the group.
The government banned al-Muhajiroun after the July 7 attacks in which four suicide bombers killed 52 commuters, but it has re-formed under new names — such as the Saved Sect or al-Gurabaa, which have also been banned. He is barred from returning to Britain. Bakri says the man depicted in the startling video that emerged after the death of British serviceman Lee Rigby was named Michael Adebolajo, a Christian who converted to Islam. Bakri recalled Adebolajo was a shy person eager to learn about Islam.
ANJEM CHOUDARY
The former head of the radical group al-Muhajiroun, an Islamist group notorious for glorifying al-Qaida and tied to terror plots at home and abroad. Choudary has in the past described the 9/11 hijackers on the United States as the "Magnificent 19." He also featured prominently in fiery protests against the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad. He is the manager of the Sharia Court in Britain. Sharia is Muslim law as derived from the Quran. Choudary says Adebolajo took part in several demonstrations by the group in London.
AL-SHABAB
Al-Qaida linked terrorist group in Somalia. Al-Shabab boasts several hundred foreign fighters, including those from the Middle East with experience in the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts. It has also recruited fighters from Somali communities in the United States and Europe. Al-Shabab once controlled almost all of Somalia's capital, Mogadishu, but African Union and Somali forces pushed the militants out of the city in 2011.
British officials have not said which of the two suspects attempted to link up with the group.
REALITY, ISLAM TACTILY APPROVES OF THEIR RADICAL PREACHERS, THE DETAILS:
Guilt Comes On Organizations That Fail To Clean House Of The Wicked Ones:
 
Now really - #1, First, The world we live in is ruled by the wicked one as testified to by 1 John 5:19, “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV).  If we pick up a newspaper in any country, we find reports of cruelty and violence on an unprecedented scale.  Man’s inhumanity to man is troubling for a righteous person to contemplate as testified to at Ecclesiastes 8:9, “All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.” (AV).
 
Second, Most individuals and/or groups seek to avoid responsibility for their own actions rather than take corrective actions.   This also applies to so called religious groups that seek to absolve themselves of responsibility for the wrong actions of members, but fail, willingly, to take action against these wrong doers by purging themselves of these wicked ones.
 
Now really - #2, If a religion fails to clean house of evil and wicked men when they are discovered, and especially of evil and wicked men/women taking the lead in a congregation, and/or congregations such as Pastors, Ministers, Sheiks, Imams, Bishops, Cardinals, Etc., then the religion is responsible for their wrong doing. Some religions such as Islam have never cleaned house of evil and wicked individuals when they are discovered and that religion has been violent since its beginning, and many of its members lust for violence in such acts as beheading of others, suicide bombers, makers of IEDs, etc. do to the teachings of their groups religious leaders. One notable example of an evil and wicked individual Islam well knows of who is a leader of a large group of members of Islam is Sheik Osama bin Ladin. Of course, Islam, is NOT the only religion that fails to take effective action against evil and wicked individuals and leaders of groups among them, another is the Catholic and Anglican churches that for many years just moved pedophiles to a new congregation when they were uncovered as the world's news media has so well identified. Groups seeking to keep themselves clean of evil and wicked individuals that sneak into their group take the appropriate action; to wit, they throw them out.
 
Now many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.
 
Now let’s look at one such religion that tries to escape their responsibility for cleaning house so to speak.
 
Now really - #3, Now of course it is important to recognize that not all Muslims are terrorist and jihadists nor refuse to recognize the property rights of others, it is likewise equally important to recognize that all jihadists are members of Islam.  Islam is totally responsible for their actions as they tacitly approve of their evil wrong doing and have never cleaned house of these wicked ones.  To wit, by not doing so, they have taken on the responsibility for their wrongful actions upon themselves.  Yes, of course they are not the only religion that has failed to clean house; thus taking on the guilt of these wrong doers.  Any religion, no exception, which fails to clean house is nothing but an evil false religion.  And as previously stated, ‘Now many religions seek to escape reality by claiming they have no provisions within their religion for purging out these wicked ones, but this is no excuse since it is their failure to provide measures for purging out these wicked ones and no one else’s.’
 
Now really - #4, Many are just fooling themselves, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions.   It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say.   People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders.   Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope (Pope Innocent III (1160 or 1161 – 16 July 1216)), what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them.   Therefore, it is the religion which is at fault, regardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say.   Neither in so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders.   Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it.   Take the Rig Veda and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.
 
Now really - #5, Likewise the failure to clean house of evil ones puts their wrongs directly upon the organization failing to throw out evil/wicked ones when they are found out.  Since they are NOT, THE only solution is to dissolve Islam, see details at, http://s11.zetaboards.com/ReligiousTruths/topic/7457748/1/ 
 
Now to know the truth, go to:
 
1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/
 
2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/
 
3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/
 
4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/
 
5) http://religious-truths.forums.com/
 
6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/
 
7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/
 
To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,  http://religioustruths.lefora.com/2012/04/03/18-part-follow-christ-bible-study/
 
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 
Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to www.jw.org!
 
 

The Following News Account Says It All With Regard To Islam:
 
The Woolwich Killing: "We must fight them as they fight us."by Mark Durie
May 22, 2013
http://www.meforum.org/3514/woolwich-killing
 
Today in Woolwich, England, a man reported to be a British soldier was cut down by two Anglo-African Muslims wielding knives and a machete. One of the killers, speaking in a home-grown English accent, is heard (here) to say:
The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British solidiers, and this British soldier is one, is a eye for a eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the Almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. So what if we want to live by the sharia in Muslim lands. Why does that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and kill us? Rather you are extreme. You the ones. When you drop a bomb, do you think it hits one person, or rather your bomb wipes out a whole family. This is the reality. By Allah if I saw your mother today with a buggy I would help her up the stairs. This is my nature. But we are forced by the Qur'an in Sura at-Tauba [Chapter 9 of the Koran], through many, many ayah [verses] throughout the Koran that [say] we must fight them as they fight us, a eye for a eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologize that women had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your governments. They don't care about you. Do you think David Cameron is gonna get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? Do you think the politicians are going to die? No it's going to be the average guy, like you, and yourchildren. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so we ca.., so you can all live in peace. Leave our lands and you will live in peace. That's all I have to say. Allah's peace and blessings be upon Muhammad ...
Eyewitnesses said that the victim had been wearing a 'Help for Heroes' t-shirt. Help for Heroes is a charity to help British soldiers wounded in current conflicts.
Eyewitnesses also reported that the killers attempted to behead the soldier, and that they asked bystanders to call the police, and moved towards the police as if to attack them, as soon as they appeared.
While some said the killers were crazed, the contrary seems to be the case. They appear to have been acting in accordance with a theologically determined logic which can be understood on the basis of Islamic teachings. In the midst of perpetrating this carnage, they found time, calmly and clearly, to explain their motivations on camera.
The killer captured on video was referencing passages from Islamic sacred texts. "We must fight them as they fight us" is a phrase found repeatedly in the Koran. He specifically mentions Sura at-Tauba (chapter 9, i.e. verse 36) and 'many, many' other verses from the Koran, namely:
"fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together" (Sura 9:36)
"fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for fitnah (oppression, persecution) is worse than slaughter; ... if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. " (Sura 2:190-9)
"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" (Sura 22:39)
The Arabic word for 'fight' used in the Koran in these passages is qātilū which literally means fighting to kill. (See here for an explanation of the meaning of Sura 2:190-91, a passage used by Muslim jurists to justify killing.)
The reference 'an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth' is also from the Koran (although ultimately borrowed from several passages in the Mosaic law):
And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. (Sura 5:45)
The Muslim killers here are invoking a religious ruling that it is permissible to fight and kill people who wage war against Muslims. As Bin Ladin put it in his letter to the American people:
"It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge."
The belief which seems to underly the Woolwich attack is that because the British government is fighting a war against Muslims in Muslim lands, it is therefore legitimate for Muslims to wage jihad against the British. British people, who voted the government into power, are also considered to be personally culpable, which is why they 'will never be safe' and are told to 'remove your government'.
The killer's language is strikingly reminiscent of Bin Ladin's November 2002 letter to the American people, in which he not only spoke of 'removal' of governments (in Muslim lands), but also explained that it was legitimate to attack American civilians because they are the ones who voted their government into power:
"... the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. ... The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want. ... the American army is part of the American people. ... This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us. ... Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. ... whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.
The phrase 'you people will never be safe' is reminiscent of Muhammad's instruction to his followers to invite non-Muslims to Islam by telling them aslim taslam "Accept Islam and you will be safe" (see here). The implication is that non-Muslims are not safe because their blood and property can be taken until they convert. Thus Muhammad said to his cousin Ali, on the eve of the attack against the Jews of Khaibar:
"Fight (qātilū) until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger [i.e. until they convert to Islam] and when they do that, then their blood and their riches are inviolable [safe] from your hands." (Sahih Muslim. Book of the Merits of the Companions of the Holy Prophet 4:29:5917).
It seems the killers desired martyrdom in accordance with their beliefs, because they asked bystanders to call the police and immediately moved to attack the police when they arrived on the scene.
This slaughter on the streets of Woolwich has all the hallmarks of a theologically motivated attack, and keys to understand it can be found in the Qur'an and the teachings of Muhammad.
Whether the views adopted by the killers are 'legitimate' interpretations of the Koran and Muhammad's teachings may be disputed. What cannot be disputed is the source where they found their inspiration.
Mark Durie is an Anglican vicar in Melbourne, Australia, author of The Third Choice, and an Associate Fellow at the Middle Eastern Forum.

Proof The Quran Is Not A Book By The True God:
 
Whereas the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH) clearly states at Mark 12:30-31, “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV), that you shall love your neighbor, the Quran no where says this.   This omission clearly shows the Quran is not of the true God, but is of the god of this system of things identified at 2 Corinthians 4:4, “In whom the god of this world [Satan] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” (AV).
 
Now, let’s look at how false religious inspiration of people under the control of the ‘god of this world [Satan]’ act against their neighbor as shown by a Reuters news item from France:
 
Attack on French soldier had Islamist motivation: prosecutor[Reuters] By Alexandria Sage | Reuters – 31 mins ago
By Alexandria Sage
PARIS (Reuters) - A Muslim convert arrested on suspicion of stabbing a French soldier in a Paris suburb was motivated by religion, prosecutors said on Wednesday.
 
The attack took place on May 25, three days after attackers chanting Islamist slogans killed a British soldier in London.
 
France has been on a security alert since January, when its troops began fighting al Qaeda-linked Islamists in Mali.
 
Prosecutor Francois Molins said authorities were treating the Paris attack as a terrorist act.
 
The suspect had been seen on a surveillance camera saying a Muslim prayer minutes before the assault on a soldier on patrol in the La Defense business district of Paris, he said.
 
"The nature of the incident, the fact it took place three days after London, and the prayer just before the act lead us to believe he acted on the basis of religious ideology and that his desire was to attack a representative of the state," Molins told a news conference.
 
"It seems clear the intent was to kill."
 
The soldier, who was attacked from behind with a knife, was released from hospital on Monday.
 
The suspect, identified by Molins only as "Alexandre", was arrested in a Paris suburb on Wednesday after being identified through fingerprints, police sources said earlier.
 
His age was originally given as 22 but authorities later clarified that he would reach that age on May 30.
 
Molins said the suspect was known to police for crimes such as theft and possession of firearms and that he converted to Islam when he became an adult. No details of his ethnicity were given.
 
TIME OF CONCERN
France's Muslim population is estimated at 5 million-6 million and is the biggest in Europe, the legacy of the French colonization of North and West Africa and subsequent waves of immigration into the suburbs of cities such as Paris, Marseille and Lyon.
 
In March 2012, the country was shocked by the killing of four Jews and three soldiers in and around the southern city of Toulouse by a radicalized French Muslim called Mohamed Merah, who was later shot dead by police.
 
That attack was the worst on French soil since bombings in 1995 on the underground train network by Algeria's Armed Islamic Group (GIA) that killed eight and wounded scores.
 
"This incident comes at a time of concern, threats, terrorist threats that this country has been receiving for the past few months. So we have to remain alert," Interior Minister Manuel Valls said of the Paris stabbing, speaking on i>Tele television.
 
In Britain, the killing of the soldier in what the government said appeared to be a terrorist attack has led to protests against radical Islam and fears of a possible anti-Muslim backlash.
 
Suspects Michael Adebolajo, 28 and Michael Adebowale, 22, are under armed guard in hospital after being shot and arrested by police on suspicion of murder last Wednesday.
 
(Additional Reporting by Brian Love; Editing by Mark John and Angus MacSwan)  [source - retrieved from   http://news.yahoo.com/attack-french-soldier-had-islamist-motivation-prosecutor-115736841.html    on  5/29/2013]
 
Now to know the truth, go to:
 
1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/
 
2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/
 
3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/
 
4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/
 
5) http://religious-truths.forums.com/
 
6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/
 
7) http://religioustruths.forumotion.com/
 
To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to,  http://religioustruths.lefora.com/2012/04/03/18-part-follow-christ-bible-study/
 
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 
Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to www.jw.org!